Transcript: How to Play the Leadership Long Game

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Walter: [00:00:00] If you come into that conversation and you have an opportunity to tell a little bit about yourself, and you can talk with passion about your why, why am I connected to the work that I do, and what is the outcome and what is, how can I add value at the backend? That is how you become memorable. 

Katie: Welcome to Take a Beat, a podcast dedicated to career pivots and those who are wanting to hit pause on the hustle, get clear on your direction and head toward the life that you envision.

Katie: Today's episode explores the topic of leadership, whether that's stepping into a leadership role or taking the lead in your own career, both require a certain level of accountability and commitment, which is where mentorship can sometimes come in handy. To dive deeper into these ideas as well as some of the behind the scenes effort that it takes to become a leader.

Katie: I talked with Walter Dusel Dorp, also known as the Dutch Mentor. Walter spent years as a flight paramedic, eventually becoming a healthcare executive, and now [00:01:00] mentors others so that they can not only succeed in leadership roles and advance in their careers, but also find enjoyment in leading. Take a listen to hear some of Walter's insights on what to look for in a mentor, the difference between doing and leading, how to differentiate yourself in the job market and more

Katie: so you refer to yourself as the Dutch mentor. What led you to a passion for mentoring in particular? 

Walter: Well, I, I think the obvious is, is that I lacked a mentor at some point in time in my career, and I, I was waiting for my employer. To provide that to me, although my boss was a great boss and said, I'm here to support you, but he, he didn't really have the time to give me proper support as I learned to go from being a high performer doer to becoming a, a leader.

Walter: And so I early on recognized that and I said, listen, if I want to become an highly effective leader, I need help. So initially I started looking for some, uh, mentorship within the institution, and then I [00:02:00] finally decided, listen, it's a wise investment for myself. To be able to find a mentor who I can work with on a consistent basis.

Walter: That's where my initial con connection, and I'm actually, um, I'm still his mentee today, uh, 14 years later. Um, and of course that passion over time as I had gone up to a career ladder, I really made that, made sure that I, I I was able to pay, be able to pay attention to folks or retain services for them to be able to feel that they were connected to the work at the opportunity to have safe conversations.

Walter: And of course, uh, growers, individuals and growers professionals. 

Katie: I think it's interesting that you had to go seek out a mentor and it wasn't necessarily something that sort of organically came to be where you were working. 

Walter: So I'll give you the scariest statistics that is, is out there that 95% of executive leaders feel, uh, and support mentorship for all of their leaders.

Walter: It's only 5% of those who take meaningful action, and that's the missing [00:03:00] link. People forget where it came from. And, and just be honest with you, men are far worse than, uh, than men. Uh, women, men's egos and pride get into the way and they are afraid to ask for help or say, oh, I can do it myself, or I will do this myself.

Walter: Well, we need to be vulnerable and say, I don't know everything and I need some help along the way. And the right and the, the greatest of organizations provide that services to their team members. And that's the difference between me as a mentor versus a coach. A coach is somebody who can cheer on the sideline, give vision and talk strategy, and do big picture stuff.

Walter: I've been there and done that. My mentors, myself based our experience, you know, our, our gift, you know, I was sharing based on deep personal experiences. It is the people who are going into leadership roles who aspire to be in leadership. Need to be guided over the first six months as they transition into a new role.

Walter: 'cause that's how they can accelerate. That's how they can learn about the [00:04:00] culture that they're entering. How can they adopt quicker? How can they become more productive? That is one area. The other thing is there's lots of leaders who have gone up. Uh, who, who are highly technical people, great, phenomenal performers.

Walter: Then we put into leadership roles, managers, directors, even though of the a VP level and really never understood the difference between doing and leading. And they continue to do in a leadership role. And that makes people who work for them very uncomfortable. And, and that's where the connection needs to be made.

Walter: That's where the change needs to be made. 5% of the leaders follow through and do it, but that's not really sufficient. Right. And if, and if I can throw one more stat to you, is that. Most organizations, 10, 15, 20,000, uh, people, every one to 10 people have a supervisor, right? The, the frontline, 90% of the frontline reports to the middle manager.

Walter: It is maybe 1% of those middle managers who are chosen to go into these elite programs in their, in the organizations that go to these become fellows who become like, well, what about the other 99%? [00:05:00] They send them to a webinar or a conference or maybe an online module. The problem is that one area and one area out, love going to a conference.

Walter: But by Monday morning, we can't remember what we talked about, and we certainly don't take action. So we need to learn to be different and be bold and be vulnerable. 

Katie: Well, I think it's interesting what you brought up too, the idea of, or the difference between doing and leading. How would you describe what that is?

Katie: What, what does that look like? 

Walter: So people who are, uh, for example, I work a lot with clinicians, right? A lot with, uh, healthcare workers. So if you go from a clinical bedside as a nurse where you're, you take care of patients and you do this, you that, and now you are shifted into an assistant or a nurse manager role, what you end up doing is, instead of trusting people or delegating, it is easier for you to do it than to explain it to somebody.

Walter: But the value of a manager is to both manage process and to lead people. People need to be led. They need to feel [00:06:00] valued, they need to feel worthy, they need to feel inspired. But the thing is, if you are all day busy doing only two things can happen, right? Either you're doing all day long and you're working 20 extra hours over top of that.

Walter: In other words, impacting your work life balance, trying to lead. So they need to learn over time what it is to shift from doing to leading. And I, I have a very specific, it's called a Valley of Despair. A lot of people get stuck in that, and if you don't get the proper guidance. You never get out of it.

Walter: And people never really find the joy in leading. And a lot of them actually leave leadership and go back to the front line because they didn't like it. There was no fun and it was, you know, uh, old time consuming 40 hour, 56 hour work weeks and bring in work home. That's not what leadership is. 

Katie: The value of despair, I'm guessing, is when people struggle to delegate essentially and kind of take everything, all the 

Walter: above.

Katie: Yeah. 

Walter: Yeah. Failure to, to learn how to delegate, how to have a good, constructive feedback. Uh, how to have difficult conversations, how to [00:07:00] time manage, how to, you know, inspire, how to, you know, bring a vision, life, how to bring clarity, how to measure all these management and leadership. Techniques where they, where they come together, where you clearly need to understand the difference between doing I am doing the task versus, uh, uh, versus somebody who is going to learn to lead.

Walter: Right? How can I inspire, how can I bring clarity? How can I ins, you know, motivate my team while they're still doing a little bit? But that's not the primary function, right? So maybe not only 50% you're doing. 25%, you're improving. You're looking at opportunities and looking to the future. Well, that's the role of the middle manager, right?

Walter: And that's the thing that they are not understanding, and that's why they need help and guidance. Remember that our most valuable asset in any company are our people, right? And anytime we don't develop that person, they do one or two things. They stagnate or they leave us. Well, turnover in any organization is a hidden cost that nobody really pays attention to, but it is [00:08:00] exponential.

Walter: And healthcare middle manager leaving is like 50 to 75,000 while a provider leaving might be 150 to $200,000. So the key thing is, is that the pe, there's 5% of leaders get it and they say, listen, a really important part of my, my, my vision is to provide leadership development on all levels. And I connect coaches and mentors to the people who are going through that transition itself.

Katie: Do you see when, when people are coming to you for, for mentorship, given that you work with a wide range of career experience, are there any common challenges that you're seeing among people who are coming to you? 

Walter: Yes. I think number one is time management, right? People, uh, people say, I don't have time for this.

Walter: Well, listen, uh, you, you have to look at it from a different perspective, right? Is that investing time and money in yourself is something that you owe to yourself. Right. And, and the thing is, is that it does not need to be hours in a day. So my, my little, my tagline is, just 15 minutes per [00:09:00] day, you too can be the lead there.

Walter: You always want it to be, or the leader that you need, your team needs to thrive under. And literally that only takes 15 minutes per day. But you need to a, understand and develop the skills, knowledge, and abilities to what effective leadership is, and then hold yourself accountable to that on a day-today basis.

Walter: Actually I'm, I'm building out a mobile app right now. It's called Smart Performance, where we will be helping emerging leaders or people who are looking to pivot, or people who are looking for promotion to really get back to that ground level, that dirt level, making sure that the soil is right in order to be able to advance themselves.

Walter: So the areas of complaint, and that's why you start with Smart s, is for self-care. Lots of people complain of work-life balance. I, I, you know, I feel stressed. I'm near burnout. 50, 60% of people, the workforce is near burnout, so we need to address that. The other thing is that a lot of people don't dream big enough, so they limit their own abilities.

Walter: So the self-care, it's about mindful growth. [00:10:00] How do I really learn about leadership? Who am I versus how am I perceived? How can I make these connectors? And this really, you know, going down the line, building these blocks. Of, of it will empower them to be able to be the person that they always wanted to be.

Walter: But they need guidance, need, need support along the way. And of course you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Right, right. So it is, and I'll tell you now, I'll go back to it one more time. Women are much better at this. They say, I need a little bit of help and I'm willing to make that investment.

Walter: And I'm very proud of them for saying that. 'cause you know what guys are missing out and, and that is something that, you know, both sides a. You know, we need to understand if we want to get you know ahead, if we want to get that promotion, we want to earn more money. But it requires an investment. You cannot just be stagnant and sit back and hope 'cause there's 400 other people around you with the exact same dream and same pathway.

Walter: You need to learn to differentiate. 

Katie: Well, on that note of differentiating, how can [00:11:00] people start to differentiate themselves? 

Walter: Well, the first place to start is the S again, uh, not only self-care, but self-awareness. I challenge all my mentees to do a couple things. A go ask simple questions of the people around you, above you to decide that you're below you and ask them, what do I do well?

Walter: And what am I, what am I blind spots? My, my, my blockers? What are, what is something I do more of? Once you've collected about 10 or 15 people around you and you see a consistent, you know, in your, but do I do well? Communication, communication, communication well, that becomes your super strength. I always laugh when I look at resumes.

Walter: People say, Hey, can you, Walter, can you look at my resume? Say, sure, no problem. They send it to me. And then they have a nice little, a AI written opening statement, right? There's no emotion, no connection. And then they have the block, what am I good at? And they have 16 things that they're experts at. I said, people, none of us are experts at 16 things.

Walter: Why don't you select the four or five that you truly are an [00:12:00] expert at? And, and I even love it better when people say, I'm an expert at Excel. I said, are you. He said, would you like me to test that? He said, you know, let me do A, B, and C and it all falls apart. Again. People love to say that they are, but they really have never validated if they really are an expert and being knowledgeable, being good at something is very different.

Walter: They're being an expert, something, right? So learning to differentiate by asking others what they think of you, that's the perception of you versus what you think. Learning that gap and, and really understanding. So once you have your, your, your differentiating strength, now how can I promote, how can I now add value in the interview in the, in my role, in the new role?

Walter: When you want to pivot from different organizations or different industries, how can I leverage that piece so I can be value adding and it needs to be articulated so well that it becomes memorable. And that's the second part of the equation Storytelling. People are not very [00:13:00] good at it. 

Katie: Why do you think people aren't great at storytelling?

Walter: Because again, nobody taught them in, in, uh, high school or in college. How to tell the story. It is about how can I be, be impactful. Now, just to simply start off with, you know, I say, listen, put your resume upside down. I don't really care what's on paper. That's just, you know, you just type that right. It makes it look good.

Walter: I want to hear from you. Tell me a little bit about yourself, and then they go on a five minute, 10 minute. You know, rent or running on sentences that really makes no sense. And by the end of the day, I don't remember you because you're just like everybody else. But if you come into that conversation and you have an opportunity to tell a little bit about yourself, and you can talk with passion about your why, why am I connected to the work that I do, and what is the outcome and what is, how can I add value at the backend?

Walter: That is how you become memorable. You have to get that emotional connection. What is that? You know, that opener? What is that middle part? What's the end of it? And once you walk away from it, [00:14:00] you say, listen, I, I remember her. She had a unique story to tell. And it's mostly in that first five minutes of meeting somebody that most people who are interviewing will know if they have a connection or they trust you.

Walter: Uh uh, yes or no. 

Katie: So knowing your why, building an emotional connection, any other tips on storytelling or being able to really promote yourself in that way? 

Walter: Practice, practice, practice. Right? Don't think that you can just go online and ask, say, ask ai gr say, how do I tell a story? And you'll read it once on hour and hour.

Walter: That that's not how it works. Right? Uh, practice, practice, practice, practice with your mom and dad, with your son, your sons and daughters, and your, you know, your spouses practice until you get really good at it, right? I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not great at it, right? Because I still need the more practice, practice, practice.

Walter: And that is really the, the, the power, the, the best communicators. The best storytellers. 

Katie: Do you have an example of someone that you look to as a really great storyteller? 

Walter: Well, I mean, Simon Sinek is one of those great, uh, you know, [00:15:00] BNE Brown is another great storyteller, and this, there's, there's a video, the Stand Up.

Walter: Gary V is another one. Tony Robbins is another one. We, those the top four people that I would come to mind that go listen to them, see what they say, tell, see how they tell a story, how they make that connection, how they have these intentional pauses. How they can slow down the conversation and speed it back up to get you excited.

Walter: How do you start with that hook at your attention and how they build that up? But it all is done within 45 seconds to maybe 60 to, you know, seconds at a clip. 

Katie: I think. What, what you're talking about there can be especially helpful for career pivoters or people transitioning who have to make sort of more of a case for themselves potentially into why they wanna move into a new role or a new industry.

Katie: Do you have any other, do you work with this population a lot? Do you have any advice for people who are specifically trying to make a move like that? 

Walter: I'll use an example for, you know, I am at a, I, I love being a [00:16:00] clinician. I was a paramedic for over 30 years. Flew paramedic as a flight medic for many, many years.

Walter: I was a healthcare executive for over 20 years, and then COVID hit once we got past COVID, they said, listen, is this really what I wanna do? And my initial dream was always to be that CEO. Uh, but they say, you know what? I think the mission here really is, is working with that middle manager. They are the ones who are struggling most.

Walter: How can I make sure that they are set up for six, 10 days success and they find joy in the work that they do? And today I'm pivoting to aviation. I'm in certified flight instructor, helicopter and airplane. Soon. Um, and I wanna start teaching. So I want to say, listen, I want to coach, mentor half my time, and I want be a flight instructor.

Walter: So a, it takes courage. That's the word. First word I want to give out to the pe. Anybody who's thinking about that now, ask yourself a question, honestly, right? Am I happy? How do you feel on Sunday afternoon? If you feel joy and happiness, you really can concentrate on, on your [00:17:00] family and faith. Whatever, whatever makes you happy, you're in a good spot.

Walter: But if you are already dreading going to work on Monday morning, listen, start challenging yourself. There's a better way forward. It. It takes courage number one. Number two is you need to think about that. Uh, you know, this is a journey. This is not just, I, I overnight, I thought I want to go into something else.

Walter: So now you have to prime the pump. You have to learn a, test it out to make sure that this is, that the pivot you really wanna make, and then really become good at certain things. And again, it goes right back to the basics, right? How can I differentiate, how can I bring value to something that, that everybody has been resistant to?

Walter: So I'll give you an example. As a young healthcare administrator, I was working with a company. That they were really leading with Lean with the Six Sigma approach. They, they were teaching, you know, they were, all of their members were going to that learning how to do process improvement on the Six Sigma level.

Walter: And as a vendor of that company, I was an outsider and I said to them, say, Hey listen, I think you [00:18:00] guys should, you know, bring vendors into the mix. And they said, no. That's like, why would we ever wanna do that? I mean, that this, this is internal and, and I. I pushed myself hard enough and tried to convince the right people to say, listen, why don't we pilot something?

Walter: Bring me in and lemme tell you, I went to the courses over the next six and nine months and I have made life long bombs with the people in that class. And the company became closer to the, you know, to us over time and we have done great things together and, you know, until the left, I dunno what what's happening there today.

Walter: But the thing is, is that the, the message is if you want something, if you, you need to find ways to bring value, right? So again, you have to shape it. You cannot sit back and wait for people to do it. You have to take the lead and find a way how you can add value and be and prepare yourself. 

Katie: So being the leader in your own career, yes.

Katie: Yeah. 

Walter: We are all leaders, right? I you, the leader word does not mean that you're leader [00:19:00] of a thousand or. You are a leader of yourself, right? You are the company, you are your personal brand, right? That goes right under that self-awareness part of it. You need to understand your why, your personal brand. You need to have that big dream, right?

Walter: And in order to be able to take, to take the show on the road and really sell yourself. 

Katie: I think another thing that you talk about is sustainable outcomes. How does that potentially relate to this too? Like playing the long game and making sure that you have the energy and enthusiasm to be able to do that?

Walter: So, that's a great question. I think it's the number one failure, uh, amongst, uh, you know, in society today at large, uh, period across everything that we do. Why is that? Because we are, we, we will expect everything instantaneous today. And our patience has is, is very short, right? So, um, sustainability is the most difficult thing a admit that, right?

Walter: So now that you admit it, now we need to make a burning platform out of it. And, and that means that we need to learn to [00:20:00] measure our performance. So one of the key applications that my mobile app will b is that you can solve, monitor, self-report, self-accountability, your actions that you're going to take against the, uh, you know, the things that action items in the program itself.

Walter: How can I. You know, be built, my brand, my self-awareness, how can I, you know, develop these four key responsibilities of leaders. So measurement is the key to success, and that's the missing piece today. Now, I'll give you a very crystal clear example. On December 31st, before the strike at midnight, everybody's going to make a promise for the next year, right?

Walter: I am going to, to the gym, and I'm gonna go tomorrow morning. I'm gonna go out and buy myself that membership. This is the year that I'm going to get in shape. Gym owners love you because of it, right? They, they, yeah. Ching. So all of us go in the first couple days, we go to buy a membership for the, for the remain of the year because that's all how they sell it.

Walter: Um, and then we go to the gym three times the first week, twice the second week, once the third week, [00:21:00] and we go back four times for the rest of the year. The gym owner loves it because his buddy builders now have the whole place to themselves and somebody else is paying for it, right? But our behavior is not set up for sustainability because we don't measure.

Walter: Now, if I challenge each person that if you want to change the behavior and you assess yourself or you get an accountability buddy to assess yourself with me. So for me, like in the mobile app is when my clients meet with me, I can now go into the mobile app and see how yourself, uh, held yourself accountable.

Walter: And if it is all read. Let's talk about accountability. There's nothing to talk about other than to say what is the accountability? How you hold yourself accountable? What's the countermeasure and what are you gonna do tomorrow? And once we connect the piece of daily measurement, self accountability, if you need, having an accountability bo body taking proper account measures, no gym, no Starbucks, right?

Walter: And, and learn, to be honest to self is where we can build [00:22:00] sustainability. The magic is 120 days. It goes back to my 15 minutes per day. You too can be the leader you want to be. So if you practice leadership skills now and ability 15 minutes a day, over time you can create new normals. And it's only when you reach that new normal that you have created a new habit.

Walter: And a new habit can lead and, and, and maintain or get sustainability. An example is. With your non-dominant hand, it feels ugly and strange on day one. Well, if you do that 15 minutes per day for the next 120 days, you too will be amid. Extras are pretty darn good in both hands, but can you do that? No, because we don't have the behavior.

Walter: Don't think about technical piece. It's your behavior that holds you back from becoming sustainable. And that's the pivotal piece that people need to learn, understand, and do something about. And having a mentor or an accountability partner [00:23:00] helps tremendously. 

Katie: If someone does wanna seek out a mentor, what are some things that you would suggest that they look for in a ment that could be a good fit for them?

Walter: So that phenomenal question. There's no one size fits all right? Um, don't feel that you, the first person you talk to, that you need to stay with them. You have to find the person that, that you feel, you know, connected to. You can build a partnership around, right? The person does not need to come to your birthday parties, bar mitzvahs, or weddings, but you do need to find a meaningful connection.

Walter: It's okay too that you, you, that you work with somebody for six months and say this, I'm kind of plateauing I need, and you go on to the next person. It is not doing it. That's holding you back. Right? Picking up the telephone, having a conversation, making a deeper connection. But it is quite normal that you go with somebody and then you leave.

Walter: Right? You, you say, listen, I, I, you know, thank you very much. Let's stay in touch. Uh, but the, the [00:24:00] key to success is to actually start, do something. Take of that. Go find that mentor mentee. And the, the second piece of the puzzle is don't do it once a month, right? Mentorship one hour per month. Remember that 20 minutes I talked about earlier?

Walter: 40 minutes of that is forgotten, right? Meet with somebody for shorter periods of time, once per week. That's where the magic is, and that's where, and make it action based, not just, you know, rambling on. So it needs to be action based, there needs to be accountability to it. It's like taking a medicine, not the first medicine works.

Walter: Right. Look around and seek the right person for you 

Katie: and you may outgrow a, a mentor and that is absolutely really normal. 

Walter: Absolutely no doubt about it because you grow, you change, things evolve, and sometimes you need to be challeng the person not challenging you anymore, then you don't. And it, and it's like having that difficult conversation.

Walter: I'm going to break up with you now, right? It is, uh, and it's part of the reason why I do my membership on a month-to-month [00:25:00] basis. Yes, it's recurrent, but you can stop it at any time. And listen, if a difficult conversation is, is difficult, don't book your own appointments. Stop booking and stop paying and you move on, right?

Walter: I mean, uh, but, but, so I try to lower the threshold to make it as easy as possible for the people. So you don't feel, but I think it is important to challenge yourself from time to time. Am I still getting value out of the person I'm meeting with? And if the answer is no, then move on. There's nothing wrong with that.

Katie: Well, I appreciate you, you know, coming on and sharing your wisdom and talking more about mentorship and leadership. Do you have any other advice that you think would be helpful or that I didn't get to that you'd like to add? 

Walter: I think the most important piece is to take action, right? Is that if you want to improve yourself, if you want that promotion, if you want to become a better leader, if you want to get into a position to go to be a leader.

Walter: Don't wait for people to come to you. [00:26:00] You have to take the bull by the horn. You have to make good decisions for yourself. You have to lead yourself to greener pastures, right? It is, it is critically important. And sustainability, right? You can't just do one thing, one, I'm gonna take a certificate online now I'm gonna, great.

Walter: No, this is an ongoing development opportunity for self. And if you go on that journey, I promise you, if you measure your performance, you'll, you'll, you know, accelerate, uh, the outcomes. 

Katie: Thank you. I think that's all very helpful advice and good tips and strategies for folks. Where can people find out more about you if they're interested to learn more?

Walter: Sure. Everybody can go to my, uh, uh, website, the dutch mentor.com. Uh, you can go to LinkedIn and just connect with me there or, uh, and, and follow me. And, and you can always come into one of my subgroups. Uh, I have a weekly coaching call. You can always join that, uh, if you like. My new book is gonna be released actually to tomorrow.

Walter: It's called Smart Performance on Amazon, under the name Walter Disturb. Just find me there. It [00:27:00] will be connected to a mobile app, really connecting the pieces. It's really allowing people to, to build the, the foundational blocks that become better leaders, but then also sustain it over time. Either with over that coaching it is, of course we encourage people to work with a mentor, but those who are resistant or, or really can find the dollars, this is an a lesser expensive solution to the problem that would encourage you to use it as a guide to get to you, to wherever it is that you want to go.

Katie: I hope this episode was helpful and provided some insight around stepping into a leadership role, whether that's leading others or leading your own career. As an additional note, if you're ready to make a change in your career and don't know where to start, or it feels too overwhelming, check out. Take a b coaching.com to learn more about a one-on-one coaching program designed to help you navigate a career pivot.

Katie: Thanks for listening and take [00:28:00] care.