Transcript: Climbing the Ladder with Connection, Not Just Credentials

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Katie: Welcome to Take a Beat, a podcast dedicated to career pivoters and those who are wanting to hit pause on the hustle, get clear on your direction and head toward the life that you envision.

Today’s episode is an interview with Brianne Rush, who after quickly climbing her own career ladder and pivoting into new roles and industries is now helping young women to do the same.

Brianne credits her fast trajectory–moving from an editorial intern to managing editor in a year and employee to vice president in four–to her ability to not only decode unspoken workplace dynamics but also to challenge outdated norms and to advocate for herself. 

Today she’s here to share more of her story as well as some of the techniques she teaches as part of the Independence Lab, which she created to help Gen Z women transition from college to career with confidence.

Take a listen to hear more.

Katie: Thank you so much for, for joining today and for coming on.

Katie: I really appreciate it. Thank you 

Brianne: so much for having me. I'm excited to be here, Katie. 

Katie: Well, I am. I'm really excited to talk to you about your career transitions and I, I know you've had a couple and how you're now also helping others to, to do similar. And I know you started in magazine journalism and then moved your way to, now you're a VP of operations.

Katie: Can you talk a little bit or share a little bit about how you moved from [00:01:00] point A to where you're at now? 

Brianne: Yeah, absolutely. I know it kind of sounds strange magazine journalism now operations, but the, the. Path is actually well connected if I look back at it. And when I was a little girl, I just, I knew, I knew that I wanted to be a journalist.

Brianne: I was writing stories all the time. I was creating newspapers for my family in my bedroom when I was like eight. So moving to New York City and being a journalist. Specifically in magazine journalism was something I just knew innately I really wanted to do. And I went to a college where they actually had that major, it probably doesn't exist anymore, but I did graduate with a magazine journalism degree and before I even walked I commencement, I moved to New York City for an internship and worked at a company that had several different magazines in, uh, dance and cheerleading, which I were, I was very passionate about at the time.

Brianne: But after a couple of years, I decided that [00:02:00] wasn't really the best fit. I couldn't see myself there long term, so I decided to move back home to Ohio, and I used my storytelling skills to actually go into what's called content marketing. So working for a brand, or in my case an agency. Where we're telling the story for a brand, it's part of the marketing process.

Brianne: So I did that and I built a content marketing team at our digital marketing agency, and what I realized is like I actually really like this building part. So building a team and building the business and helping it grow. That's what I ended up being passionate about, which is odd. 'cause if you asked me that in college, I would've been like, no way.

Brianne: Not business, but that's what I really love. And so my day job, that's what I do today. I'm VP of operations of a digital marketing agency. And what I focus on is profitability and helping the company grow. And that's through sales, marketing and then the people in process part. 

Katie: So it's the [00:03:00] experience along the way that showed you what you were truly passionate about.

Brianne: Absolutely. It's very much like I did what I wanted to do since I was a little girl, and I loved it for a couple years, but I, it just wasn't gonna be something that I could do long term and I would've never gotten to the business side if I hadn't tried all those parts and pieces in between and tried things and put myself in new positions and been uncomfortable to find out what I really love now.

Katie: And what helped you through those transitions because they can be really uncomfortable to try something new and also leave behind something that maybe you thought was gonna be the right fit. Yeah, I, I 

Brianne: think it's a couple things. It's self-regulation, so really understanding what makes you nervous and how you can handle that.

Brianne: And then the motivation side. Right. So you are nervous? I was nervous. I, I've done sales now for a couple years, but I was. [00:04:00] So nervous the first time that I did it, I, I've never really liked public speaking and I felt like sales was kind of that. Um, but I put myself in that situation anyways because I really feel like growth comes from those uncomfortable positions that you put yourself in.

Brianne: So I definitely pushed myself and I used that motivation to help, help me grow. So I think it's a couple different areas of what. Called emotional intelligence. It's that self-regulation, just being able to calm yourself, calm your nerves when you are nervous or in those uncomfortable, uh, positions. And then also that motivation side, so pushing yourself further and saying, yes, this feels weird, or I'm a little bit nervous, but this will be good for me and I should do it, and push past those nerves anyway.

Katie: And I, I think if I, uh, read on your website that the emotional regulation is a big part of the Independence Lab, can you tell listeners a little bit about what that is and how the emotional regulation comes in there as well? 

Brianne: Yeah. The [00:05:00] Independence Lab is my passion project that I'm working on now and. I really focus on helping young women specifically transition from college into career with confidence.

Brianne: I really wanna help provide that clarity after college that I think so much is, it's almost overwhelming how many opportunities and different paths we can take and how you should be doing this and you have to do this to be adulting. And there's just a lot going on in that, that time in anybody's life.

Brianne: But if I can help young women. Understand their career path earlier, get a better job earlier, start investing earlier, prioritize their mental uh, health, their physical health through routines earlier. There's such a huge ripple effect that can come from that so they can better their lives and their future lives.

Brianne: So vastly, but that's gonna also then rub off on, you know, their family, their friends, their future children. So that's what I really focus on and I'm [00:06:00] super excited about. And you're right, emotional intelligence is really the undercurrent of all of those things, right? So understanding how to, uh, position yourself during an interview that you're super nervous about, right?

Brianne: That's emotional intelligence, having to. You know, not just preparation and going through the checklist of being prepared, but handling yourself when you're nervous, right? That's part of emotional intelligence. Getting a promotion, showing those leadership skills, that's emotional intelligence.

Brianne: Understanding why you're maybe emotionally spending emotional intelligence and then. When you transition from college into your adult life, your routines definitely have to change. And if they don't, you're gonna find yourself just kind of stuck in maybe not doing well in your job, not doing well with your mental health, um, and all of those things.

Brianne: So you have to have this self-awareness to change that as well. And it all just boils down to emotional intelligence, and that's what we talk about a lot, but in specificity [00:07:00] with the Independence lab. 

Katie: Can I ask what's behind the name? The Independence Lab? What, where did, how did you come up with that?

Brianne: Yeah, so I thought about this a lot and I think that at that point in your life, you're kind of transitioning into, I'm an adult now. I want to be independent. But it's not easy. You don't just, you know, click the button or turn the switch, and now I'm independent. You have to learn these things and. I think Gen Z is really having a tough time with that because of how the world is right now.

Brianne: And so finding that independence is really trial and error and we get to keep trying. So hence the lab part. So I think it's just based on the point of life that we're at and that we get to keep trying and experimenting. 

Katie: I think that's, it's a cool name. So I was curious, how you came up with that and how it kind of translates.

Katie: Oh, thank you. And I guess to your point about Gen Z and how they might be facing maybe like unique challenges. What, [00:08:00] what do you think some of those are? What have you seen among the people you're working with? 

Brianne: Yeah, so unfortunately what we're seeing is there's just so many fewer jobs for entry level people right now.

Brianne: Um, I think there were like. I can't remember exactly who it was. I think, um, one of the big banks came out and said in 2026 there were, we're cutting one third of our entry level job positions. And then there's on top of that ai, so anything that is kind of repeated or could be automated is going to be automated.

Brianne: So all of those jobs are coming out and there's also some. Penalties or biases that I see around hiring young people right now too. So one of those is job hopping. You know, people don't really want to hire somebody that's just gonna go to another job in a year, and unfortunately, gen Z kind of has that reputation right now.

Brianne: So it's the, the job marketplace is. [00:09:00] Really suffering right now. We're seeing such a huge change. This change hasn't been this big since the internet with ai. And then, you know, people are less willing to hire these younger people because they just feel like maybe they're not gonna stick around. So it's coming at them from all sides when they're trying to go and get their first jobs.

Katie: What are your thoughts on the job hopping or transitioning, especially when you're just starting out and you're trying to figure out what it is that you do actually like? 

Brianne: Yeah, so I think there's two sides to this, right? So I would encourage everybody to. First before you try to job hop or look for another company to work for.

Brianne: I would encourage everybody to look within themselves and say, is there something that I could be doing better to progress where I am at? So if you could be improving your skillset, if you could be improving your AI or. Specifically what we talk about, [00:10:00] um, at the, uh, independence Lab, can you improve your emotional intelligence and your leadership skills?

Brianne: Will that lead to a next position or a career path at the company that you're at, that you would be happy with, that you would be proud of, that I would encourage you to do first before kind of sitting there and saying, well, they're not giving me a promotion. I better go look, or, they're not giving me a raise.

Brianne: I better go look. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't look, if you have now looked inside yourself and said, you know this. I gave it a try. I gave it my best. I, I try to learn every day, but I just don't think this is for me. Then yes, you should absolutely start looking for the next place that you think you can grow at.

Katie: Do you think that there is something that is maybe unique to Gen Z, that they are more known for job hopping or they tend toward it more or. 

Brianne: Yeah, I think, I think it is happening more now for probably a couple reasons, but the biggest one is, [00:11:00] well, I guess two A. Money. Right? It is just, it is what it is right now.

Brianne: When, you know, my parents bought their first home, it was like $47,000. Right. I, you know, it was like something crazy. And now that same house I am sure is probably 400, $500,000. I haven't looked, but the market has just come completely changed. And the salaries have not gone up in the same way. So, you know, then they didn't have to pay for cable TV and your internet and your cell phone and your whatever.

Brianne: We just have more bills today. And the salaries, well, of course they have increased. They haven't increased at the same pace, so. When they aren't getting the salaries that they need, of course they're gonna go look for that elsewhere. And then the second part of that is social media, right? They are being told, if you don't ha get a raise that's 7%, you're losing money.

Brianne: If you haven't gone out and search for a new job, you're not getting the most money, like. All of [00:12:00] this is coming at them. They are being bombarded with this advice from social media. And some of it's good advice, some of it maybe not, but those two things where they're not making enough and then they're seeing these influencers say, you're, you need a raise, you need a new job.

Brianne: That's what's really driving that, uh, that job hopping that we're seeing. 

Katie: I mean, there certainly is a lot of pressure with the economy and wanting to make sure that you set yourself up for success, especially with salary how do you help people in terms of salary negotiating and making sure that they're making, you know, the best decisions that they can around that.

Brianne: Yeah. So once you are there, once you have your job right, you need to start making an impact. And the way that you can start doing that is to start empathizing with your boss, which sounds kind of crazy. I get that. But if you can start thinking like they think and what is their challenge? What keeps them up at night?

Brianne: What do they hate doing? What do they need to do? What do they need to prove to [00:13:00] their boss? If you could start thinking through those things and then start showing up for them in the way that they need, the way that's gonna help them make an impact, your boss will. Love you, right? So you start by making an impact with your boss.

Brianne: Then what you do is you decide, okay, I want this promotion, or I want this raise. You start making the effort. Now you start being that person. Now doing the things that. Uh, we'll get you to that place. So, for me, for example, when I was working in New York City at the, the magazines, I was an editor, kind of just baseline, an editor at the magazine.

Brianne: And I said, I wanna be the managing editor, which is like second in control. There's the editor in chief and then there's the managing editor. I was like, I, I wanna be the managing editor in a couple years. So I started learning everything that. That role did, and I asked for training and I did it, and I made sure I understood the ins and the outs of it.

Brianne: So I was actually helping the managing editor do these processing [00:14:00] even though it wasn't actually my role. And so when the managing editor decided that she was gonna leave, she, she wrote a book and got to, to, you know, advance in her career that way. Guess who they asked to be? The managing editor. It was me.

Katie: Mm-hmm. 

Brianne: So I would say the more that you can learn and grow and show your impact, even if it's not your role, even if it's outside your lane a little bit, that's how you're going to make an impact and grow. And then when you have those receipts, you can go and ask for that. Raise with confidence. 

Katie: And similar to that, I think I read on your site also the idea of doing that without, um, seeming entitled, how do you kind of navigate that nuance?

Brianne: Yeah. 

Katie: Yeah. I 

Brianne: mean, and that's exactly it. When you have the proof and say, I'm already doing this work, you're not entitled anymore, right? You're, you're simply just saying, I'm doing these things. I'm making this impact. My value is now this. Instead of saying, [00:15:00] bills are expensive, I've been here for a year, please give me a raise.

Brianne: That sounds entitled. That is not the way to go about getting your raise or your promotion. But putting in the work, putting in the effort, understanding the challenges of the company, and filling those holes, filling those gaps, that's how you go about it without being entitled 

Katie: and being strategic too, as in terms of where you see yourself going maybe and having a plan for yourself.

Brianne: I think that's super important. So I knew I wanted to be the managing editor, so I wasn't really worried about what the art director was doing or what the sales team was doing. I focused all of my, you know, focus there. But that's not to say there's. Not value in learning what other people do. My friend, she actually went and sat in sales meetings because she was super interested in that.

Brianne: She didn't really have an intention of being on the sales team at that point, but she found it super valuable to learn what they, what was important to them and how she can help. And that really helped her in her career as well.[00:16:00] 

Brianne: How did it help her, uh, staying at that place and she was the editor-in-chief of the magazine later on.

Brianne: There you 

Katie: go. I think that kind of goes back to what you said before, is this idea that sometimes the dots will connect eventually, even if you don't know it in the beginning, and really following what you're interested in, even if it doesn't make any sense at the time. 

Brianne: Yeah. I think there's no, there's no bad that can come from growing.

Brianne: There's no bad that can come from investing in yourself. 

Katie: To kind of switch a little bit of gears, I know you talk a lot about interviews and interviewing strategies, which can be a very nerve wracking experience, especially your first interviews. How do you, do you see any common challenges, especially when people are doing interviews for the first time that are coming up?

Brianne: Yeah, and this is why I actually wanted to speak with you and because I really, I, what I will say is that taking a beat. Changed my life during an interview. It literally, that's how I got my, my [00:17:00] internship in New York City is because I took a beat. So what happened is I was doing my very first interview.

Brianne: I was in my college apartment and I was on the phone with this woman from New York who handled the internship program at the magazine, and I was so nervous. I clearly did not know how to prepare well because I thought I. Bombed this interview. I was like, there's no way I'm getting this job. What happened was she asked me a question, she said, what was your favorite article in the magazine over the past year?

Brianne: And yeah, I had, I obviously looked at it, read it and stuff, but like my mind went blank. I did not prepare for that question, which looking back, it's like, come on, you should have, but it was my first interview, so I. What I did was instead of freaking out, instead of just panicking and losing my cool, I said.

Brianne: Can we come back to that question? And so I took a deep breath. I answered the [00:18:00] rest of her questions. And while I was, I, since it was a phone interview, I quickly googled and I found the article that, you know, kind of refreshed in my head, like, oh yeah, that was a really good one. So then once we had finished the interview questions I said.

Brianne: Can we please come back to that question? I have an answer now. Gave it. We hung up and I was like, no way. I am getting that. That was horrible. But what ended up happening was she was so impressed with the way that I handled myself. She actually created an internship for me so. What I can say from that learning is a self-regulation and taking a beat completely changed my life 'cause I got to move to New York and that is something that we can all learn, right?

Brianne: You are going to be nervous, you are going to forget, you know, something that you should have prepared for you are going to mess up. But if you take a beat, if you self-regulate, take a breath and just ask for what you need. Can [00:19:00] we take a minute? Can we come back to that? Whatever it is that's going to showcase so much more emotional intelligence than.

Brianne: Panicking or anything else that you might do in that moment. So, back to your question, what, what have we, you know, advise during those times is to understand what makes you nervous, understand what your reaction is when you're maybe cornered, and then prepare. Prepare your mind, prepare your body to handle those situations and ask for what you need.

Katie: I, well, I think that shows an amazing amount of composure that came to you kind of intuitively, and then also maybe touches on the idea too, that you can know all the material, but if you also focus on, you know, like you said, the emotional regulation piece, that that will help you even if you don't know the material, because you'll be able to navigate through that in a more calm way.

Brianne: Yeah, I, I, I really feel like confidence and curiosity beat credentials. So even though you are just coming outta college or you maybe don't feel like [00:20:00] you have all of the experience that maybe somebody else interviewing for the same role does, if you can come across as confident, if you can come across as being excited and willing to learn and grow, people are going to see that and realize that that means a lot more than the bullet points on your resume.

Katie: Have you found that there's been other times in your career where taking a beat came in handy or was helpful to you? 

Brianne: Well, now I'm in a completely different role where I am a leader at our agency, and I think something that's been helpful for me is trying to be empathetic and take a beat when I'm seeing somebody else having a poor reaction.

Brianne: So during meetings or client calls, when somebody just. Maybe isn't behaving or reacting in the way that you would expect them to if you take a moment instead of just like shooting back at them, something snarky or being aghast or whatever it may be. If you just take a [00:21:00] minute and you're just like, you know what?

Brianne: They're probably having a bad day. Or, you know what? I think that person maybe has a little bit of anxiety right now. I'm gonna give 'em a pass or talk them through this. If you take that moment to maybe think about what the other person is feeling, instead of a snap judgment. It's going to save your relationship.

Brianne: It's going to actually have people respect you a lot more. So from that point of view, whether you know you're on the, the side where you're trying to get the job or the side of leadership, taking a beat really does come in handy. 

Katie: Well, I appreciate that you also have found it to be handy in your career as well, 

Katie: no doubt.

Katie: Do you have any advice for, whether it's Gen Z or listeners in general who are thinking about transitioning in their career or maybe they're in a job that used to resonate and doesn't quite resonate anymore? And based on your experience, how you've moved from, again, magazine journalism to the role you're in now and kind of the experience that you had, what might [00:22:00] you tell someone who's kind of at the beginning stages of that?

Brianne: Yeah, I, I think it's really having that personal knowledge of what's important to you. And what I mean by that is I once had an opportunity put in front of me where I would be making a lot more money, but.

Brianne: What I didn't love about that place is I just didn't think it was gonna necessarily be around in two to three years. So their big clients, they were telling me were Meta and, uh, the Oculus and Facebook, and I was like, those are all the same company and if they get mad at you, you're going out of business.

Brianne: So in that instance, security was more important to me, but. I have been talking to my brother who is actually in the position that you were, you were just talking about, and he's kind of been in the same role and he's considering making this giant, you know, leaped into a different role that has this potential for growth.

Brianne: It's, it's really in the AI realm, and I was like, man, you just gotta go [00:23:00] for it because you're learning something new. It has this opportunity. I said, you can always get another job. And I know that sounds a little in this economy right now, where maybe it's not as easy to get another job, but if you're holding yourself back from growing and you feel that in your soul, in your, you know, it's innate in you that it's like, man, I really feel like I can grow in that role.

Brianne: That's a completely different feeling than what I was feeling of like, eh, that's not secure. There's not really growth there, right? So you have to really understand what's important to you and when in your life, and then make sure that's the priority. So I, you know, I think there's times where it's gonna be a, I just gotta jump off this cliff and go for it.

Brianne: And then there's gonna be times where you wanna pull back and you just have to take the time to reflect within yourself and be self-aware what, what time, or what period of life you are in for that. 

Katie: Which, , maybe again, is where the emotional regulation can come in of like really [00:24:00] being grounded and not jumping at things, even if they seem shiny and opportune.

Katie: You know, maybe it isn't the best move at this particular time, or maybe it is. 

Brianne: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that's where, and I don't wanna say that everybody has to meditate or everybody has to do these things, but just finding the time with yourself to be quiet. So if you go for a walk in the park or you do meditate, if you just take the time to be quiet, no phone, no tv, no work.

Brianne: You will know the answer at that point. 

Katie: Well, I think that's really helpful advice. Do you have anything else that you would like to share or that you think could be helpful that I didn't ask or didn't get to? Um, I think that 

Brianne: really just putting your. Best foot forward with your emotional intelligence is going to be the way to either get your first job or to grow in your career.

Brianne: So if you think about it, would you want to hire or promote the person that just has [00:25:00] the skillset or would you rather. Hire or promote the person that has the skillset. Maybe it's not a hundred percent, but they are adaptable, they're flexible, they have influence, they have conflict resolution skills.

Brianne: They have all of these things. And the answer, I think pretty much for every one of us is going to be that second person that has all of those things. So be that person. I think that's how it's gonna help you grow. And what I would say is some of this stuff does seem a little bit intangible. It's a little bit x factor.

Brianne: So I did put together a playbook that anybody who is listening can go get. Um, it's at the independence lab.com/playbook. It's there, usually I sell it for $19, but because you guys are listening to this great podcast, it's there for free that you can go and get. So it just helps make it a little bit more tangible 

Katie: Awesome. I was gonna ask you to, as a quick follow up, how can people kind of communicate those softer skills, but they can go to your site [00:26:00] and get that book. So that's really helpful. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you again so much for coming on and for sharing your story and your advice, and I really appreciate it and I think listeners will too.

Katie: And so thank you. Thank you so much, Katie. I really appreciate it being on.