Transcript: Pivot Points: Navigating Planned and Unexpected Career Turns

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Meggi: [00:00:00] You know, our dreams and our dream jobs, they change as we go through our lives and different phases of our lives. Maybe when we are younger, we wanna be super ambitious, and then we have a family, and then there are other priorities, and then we grow older, and then there's yet other priorities. So just also realizing that is that it's okay to want something different now.

Katie: Welcome to Take a Beat, a podcast dedicated to career pivoters and those who are wanting to hit pause in the hustle, get clear in your direction and head toward the life that you envision. Today's episode explores career transitions from the lens of me Ruck, who over the course of her career, has switched industries roles, and now facing an unexpected pivot is taking the time to reevaluate her version of career success.

Katie: This is what me calls playing it by her rules. Or taking a more intentional approach to making sure that her next step or [00:01:00] steps align with her current values and priorities. She's here today to talk more about how she's doing that and to share more of her story, which includes overcoming periods of burnout, taking on a role she wasn't super excited about to get to her dream job than losing that dream job, and now in spite of the loss, creating this next stage of her professional journey on her terms.

Katie: Take a listen to hear more.

Katie: So I know that we're gonna focus in on the idea of shaping your own version of success, like people being able to do that versus sort of playing by other people's rules of success. How did you come to that for yourself? How did you get interested in that? 

Meggi: So this is the whole played by your Roots notion is quite recent.

Meggi: Um, but I did now realize, looking back at my career, there were moments sprinkled throughout where I really assumed it in and thought about what do I actually want to need at this [00:02:00] stage of my life? And then I kind of broke out or broke free or changed or went on a sabbatical, and now I'm just doing it much more intentionally.

Meggi: So now I, as you know, I also have a podcast that I now called Played by Your Rules. So my work is really, I wanna call it out and also with this, a little bit of a rebel energy to kind of also push the boundaries a little bit and shake people up and, and inspire people to also dare to. To play it by their rules to really question and, and that could be either in how you do things in your current job, so more in terms of setting boundaries more clearer or to really think about, do I still want to do this job or do I want to do something different?

Meggi: And then to define of what else you actually might want to do. 

Katie: Did you yourself have a moment of clarity? Was there a particular time when things became too overwhelming or one sabbatical that maybe changed at all for you? 

Meggi: So I think it was more recent, maybe last year. 'cause there, before that I really [00:03:00] hit the wall full speech.

Meggi: We had lots of restructurings at work. I had a burnout. And then I had a also quite a serious health challenge that I had to struggle with for years. So. In that year, I got into mindfulness. I and I also just really question how, why did I arrive here? What could I maybe do better going forward? And that really led me to both of those approaches to one, just for starters, just to really set much clearer boundaries.

Meggi: In whatever shop you do today. But then personally for me now, I'm exploring also models I'm getting, I'm going close to 50 now and in Geneva, I'm based in Geneva. We have loads of layoffs these days, so the market is flooded with skilled people and there are not many jobs. So that also made me really think, okay, what are new creative models that I could look at?

Meggi: More intentionally for this stage of my life, because at this stage it's not so much about getting a great rank or a lot of status because I think, you know, I [00:04:00] proved myself whatever I had to prove myself. So now it's more, okay, other, other models that could work for me and that could maybe not be full-time employment, that could maybe be part-time employment and volunteering, or, I'm really just starting to explore that.

Meggi: So that for me is what I mean. Playing it by my terms now that it's more like, okay, what matters to me now and then how can I organize work around that? 

Katie: So on your exploration so far, what have you found that is working for you in terms of these new creative ways of making work? Work? I guess. 

Meggi: Yes. So I mean, I'm still job hunting, but you know, so it might just take a longer time.

Meggi: So that leaves me this time to test. So I've been very passionate about coaching for a long time, and I did that sort of voluntarily at the side as a side hustle to my main job, and I become more and more clear that as much as I love coaching, I don't want it to be a hundred percent. So now [00:05:00] I actually just returned to my previous employer, but on a 30% deal, and for now, only for three months.

Meggi: Where I can work on career path architecture. So it's still an HR type of role, but it's not so much at looking at individual coaching, but more really setting who structures into place so that it's our communications team. So this is 500 people worldwide. How can they navigate their career paths? So for now, it's only a temporary gig, but ideally I could imagine, that'd be amazing to have some.

Meggi: Part-time geeks on something I'm really passionate about. Maybe a little bit of coaching, maybe something a little bit more stable. So there's this whole notion of a portfolio career emerging where intentionally, it's not one, one employment, but it's very small ones that where maybe one of them could be a complete passion project and others are more the ones that will pay the bills.

Meggi: So that's [00:06:00] kind of what I'm looking at. Also, partly out of pragmatism because I see the current shop markets and perhaps something will emerge that I actually love and that might become something a bit more permanent. 

Katie: So it does sound like you, is it fair to say that you had full-time employment, but then we're also laid off and now are trying to figure out essentially what's gonna work for me in this current landscape?

Meggi: Yes, exactly. 

Katie: Okay. Which. How has that been for you? I mean, to, to be laid off can bring up a whole bunch of feelings and experiences. 

Meggi: Well, the for the good or the bad thing is that it happened a second time in three years, so I. You know, you, yeah. I think the important thing is to not take it personal. You know, I have a really good relationship with my manager.

Meggi: When she had to lay me off after that conversation, it was almost me saying, don't worry, it's going to be okay. Because it's, it is primarily true to the budget [00:07:00] restraints the organization has at the moment. So it wasn't, you don't perform. It was more like, sorry, we just don't have the money right now. And that's also what helped me now come back temporarily because.

Meggi: I kept the relationship, so of course it's a shock to lose your job. It's always a shock and it's hard to digest, and particularly in an environment where it might be not easy to find a job immediately. I guess I have to luck that in Geneva we have a really good unemployment system, so we actually have quite some time that we are covered.

Meggi: That gives us time to look for another job. So that helped to not freak out completely, knowing that, at least in the short term, I have some financial support that will help me to, to look for the next step. 

Katie: And now that you're looking for this next step, do you wanna stay in the same industry? Are you looking for other industries?

Katie: Are you open to that? Or what would be ideal for you? Hmm. 

Meggi: So I already, I mean, I did change industries. 15 years ago, so I wa was in the [00:08:00] private sector in marketing and there I actually realized that was in my mid thirties, I realized that marketing is a dead end career, if you will. And what I mean by that is either you move into channel management and then okay, you're channel manager, but you're not technically in marketing.

Meggi: Or you go into, let's say the CMO, the chief marketing officer, but there only one per organization, so that's not many jobs. Or you go into a medium sized company where you can maybe stay for longer in marketing, but then the people that have those jobs, they are also staying for longer in those jobs. So that's when I made my first transition from, from marketing into fundraising and then more into partnerships Works.

Meggi: At the Red Cross, and that's what I've been doing for the last 13 years. So beginning of the year, I already moved from that space into more career path building and more the career path work, even within the Red Cross. So I think that's the shift I did and where I want to head. And then it's almost [00:09:00] secondary where I do that.

Meggi: So I might be doing that in a humanitarian organization. I might be doing that type of work in a development organization or in a private company. The focus I'd like to take is to really work with people and on people development, which I could do in any organization. So that's probably more the shift I did.

Meggi: So when I look back 15 years ago, the shift was really a conscious shift from the private into the humanitarian sector, and now it's more in the type of work. Which is a different type of move, but you know, it comes with its own challenges. 

Katie: Well, I give you a lot of credit for rolling with it, it sounds like, and then being able to be creative within that and say like, okay, well this is the situation.

Katie: What am I gonna do about it? Essentially, 

Meggi: yes, thanks. It's not easy, but you know, I, I guess, you know, the more frustrated we get, it's not helping. So the more one can find a positive mindset. It helps find [00:10:00] opportunities. And how do you stay positive? I, I think part of it, I just realized I am just naturally a helpless optimist.

Meggi: I think part of it is really just who I am and I think that really helps me. But as I said last year, I really got into mindfulness practice and not just sitting and meditate. I mean, it's great I do that. I try to do it regularly, but for me, mindfulness practice goes beyond. It's also all the principle that goes with it, and that's PIN principles like acceptance, gratitude, all these little rituals and mindsets I took on since then.

Meggi: That really helps to, first of all, just accept that for now, I lost that job and. Whether I liked it or not, there's no way around it. So just even accepting it is the first way to move forward. And then really consciously practicing gratitude. Small things, you know, even if it's not related to, to work, to always see even when the work with is [00:11:00] shaky.

Meggi: I have an amazing family. I have an amazing part, and I have great friends to really focus on the bits that are working, and that really helps me to stay positive. 

Katie: Again, I, I give you a lot of credit for It's true. I mean, it's difficult to, to have that experience and then keep it moving and stay positive, so thank 

Meggi: you.

Katie: Going back to the idea of being creative and now you have this maybe reset whether you wanted it or not, and being able to be very intentional about what you want going forward, are there things that you're learning about this process that might be helpful for others who could potentially go through the same thing?

Meggi: So one thing, as I now also look back and kind of reflect how I did it in the past to see what I can even learn from myself, from my past. So one thing that can really apparent is not into, not intentionally, but somehow I always started with small steps. So for instance. Um, I had the dream to [00:12:00] go on a sabbatical, so I started with a three month sabbatical and a few years later I did a whole year, but I had, I needed the three months to conquer my fear because that got me really was so big and scary.

Meggi: Similarly, when I mo made the move from the private into the humanitarian sector, I actually first went on sabbatical with, that was paid by my, um, employer at the time, but I could volunteer with UNICEF for three months to get a little bit of sense of what it's like. Then I could gain experience, could maybe also add something on my CV to then apply for a real job.

Meggi: So what I learned is to not try to make the leap in one goal. I mean, if that can happen, great, but in most cases that's so much harder. So what I would also suggest to to listeners to see if they can already. Tip their foot into the water somewhere, like maybe volunteer, take on a project, just already try something of where they want to go, and then [00:13:00] slowly move into that direction.

Meggi: So for instance, I volunteered as a internal coach for five years, maybe a few hours each week. So now when I make the move into the more HR space, I already had a build up confidence in that space and a bit of practice. So that's what I'm now trying to do. But I would also recommend to anybody out there to, to see if they can take small steps to then make them bigger with each additional step.

Katie: And when you were taking those small steps, were these things that you were genuinely interested in or were you looking to maybe expand your skillset per se, or more strategic, if that makes sense? 

Meggi: Hmm. So when I made the move from the private into the. Humanitarian sector. I was actually dreaming to work in education, but not education.

Meggi: What I'm doing now, not staff, but really like in the field, and that was just way too big of a leap because I just simply didn't have the credentials. So I moved from marketing into fundraising and fundraising. It [00:14:00] was never my thing. I mean, I was from the beginning, very transparent about it. I was not really, it's an important piece of work.

Meggi: I give everybody the credit, who does it, but it was just not my thing. But for me, that helped me to move from, that was the closest to marketing, so I could really bring value. To the organization and then over time I could move around in the organization and get to the place that I was more passionate about.

Meggi: And that's actually also something I talk about a lot and I give some, some trainings with a, with an association in, in Geneva, I call it transferable skills, to really look at what are the skills you can transfer that will help you to start making the move, even if the first step is not what lights you up.

Meggi: Because sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and take something on that you don't love immediately. But if that helps you two, two or three steps further down the road, get where you really want to be, then it's worthwhile to kind of [00:15:00] swallow the bitter pill in the first step. 

Katie: So being able to play the long game and essentially have patience with the process.

Katie: Yes. 

Meggi: It was actually funny because I looked again at my application I sent at the time and I was very transparent. What I wanted to do eventually, which was, so that was, I was in a specific area of fundraising. I was in corporate fundraising, so funds from big companies, and I was very transparent that I wanted to build really collaborative.

Meggi: Partnerships with corporates, and that can include them giving funds, but it's just one small bit of a much bigger thing. So I think everybody involved knew from the beginning what we are getting ourselves into. So my hiring manager knew from the beginning that. I have the skills to do the job that, but I was dreaming of something different and I, I didn't think I would hate fundraising.

Meggi: I also didn't hate it. It's just it didn't get me lit up. You know? It was not what I got, what [00:16:00] I was really passionate about. I just thought a bigger potential beyond. I thought if we actually want to serve the people we want to serve in the field better, we can do it better if we collaborate than if we just take on.

Meggi: Some money, which is also great of course. But you know, I just thought there's something bigger I could work on. But I also think I, I had years before I had a mentor at work and that was in a big multinational American company. So I was even moving around there from one type of business into the other.

Meggi: And one of my mentors gave me good advice. She said, teth, you know, be clear on your three top priorities, your non-negotiables. Then you might have to compromise of some of the others, particularly when you move around. And also, and I saw that even more later when I recruited myself. You just have to be of value to the place where you want to go.

Meggi: You know, just me wanting to [00:17:00] go to the humanitarian work because I have, because that's more in line with my purpose. Well, that's great for me, but I have to prove how I can help the organization to get the job done better. So I think I understood that quite quickly. I was like, if I want to be of value that's right now the best way I can be of value, which will in increase the chances that I'll actually get hired.

Katie: I guess now, now that you're at this sort of pivot point and you talk a lot about creating the rules for your own success, can I ask what some of your rules are now for your own success? Like what would be some examples? 

Meggi: So I have, I am in a, in a business accelerator program with a coach who has the tagline, freedom, flexibility, and fulfillment.

Meggi: And that's one of the reason I work with her because that always resonated with me because that's really kind of looking at how to. Even when you consider launching a business, how you can do that from the get go to also consider your work life [00:18:00] balance and your own non-negotiables. So I was thinking how I could translate that to my.

Meggi: My three keywords and I came up with freedom, flow, and fun. And when I say flow, it's also coming from this concept, which is really, it's almost the efficiency version of mindfulness, you know? So it's finding those moments of flow where you. Where you get work done, but you're enjoying it. You, it's light and yeah, freedom and fun and it's, it's, and I'm, I'm conscious that's challenging to try to bring that into the workplace because the workplace is to get work done at the same time.

Meggi: If you can get your work done in the best quality and have fun doing it. That would be amazing. So that's kind of what I'm trying to, to navigate. And with that, there's of course many layers below that because in order to have freedom, flow and fun, the first thing you have to do is you have to be really clear on your [00:19:00] rules, on your boundaries, on your what you need to protect your energy.

Meggi: And I guess that's what I learned from my burnout to say no, no, I mean, I'm not going to go back there. I need to be very clear where I draw the line and I have to stick to it and reinforce it. And I'm also trying to inspire people to do the same. And 

Katie: does that maybe look like not applying for jobs where you know you would be burnt out, but it seems tempting.

Katie: To possibly apply? 

Meggi: Yes, yes and no because there were a few here in, in the region, there were just amazing jobs, like director of an amazing corporate foundation. These type of jobs are like, okay, I, I wanna give it a go. Being conscious that if I ever get it, but could be good anyway. I mean, given the, the, the big competition here, those opportunities were a quick no.

Meggi: So at least, at least I could say, okay, I gave it a [00:20:00] shot. And it didn't work out. But I am conscious. So I mean there are some that position, that specific one I think would've been manageable in terms of stress. But then there's some others where you can clearly smell. That's just like a very big, important position.

Meggi: I mean, those, I don't even consider. 

Katie: Well, I think, I think that's helpful, you know, in the sense of sometimes it can feel like I'll just take anything or do anything. And being able to, like you said, stick to your boundaries can be helpful because then you don't wanna be in the same position five or 10 years down the road.

Meggi: Yeah, even if you pick like a huge job and then it might be even much quicker, you know, if you then hit the wall again after a few months, then you're back to step one. So better to pick something that fits better to this stage of my life. And that's actually also something I'm realizing more and more.

Meggi: You know, our dreams and our dream jobs, they change as we go through our lives and different phases of our [00:21:00] lives. Maybe when we are younger, we wanna be super ambitious, and then we have a family, and then there are other priorities, and then we grow older, and then there's yet other priorities. So just also realizing that is that it's okay to want something different now.

Meggi: That also helps to just like, okay, maybe what I mean, going into that job at the Red Cross and the one I had for the last 10 years, that was my dream job. I was, I couldn't have dreamt of anything better. And I still think it's an amazing organization, but just now I want to work on something different and, and yeah, that's okay too.

Katie: And do you think you might've had that realization if, if you hadn't had sort of been laid off. 

Meggi: I mean, I was already, I was already planning and dreaming about this whole coaching bit for a few years, so I had already started looking into that actually, not only before I get laid off, but also before I had that burnout.

Meggi: Then I just hesitated because [00:22:00] it was too scary. It was like, you know, maybe I do that later. Maybe I just do another year, or maybe I just do another two years or maybe, and almost being laid off came as a gift because the decision was taken for me. It was, okay, now you're out. Now I anyway have to look for something else.

Meggi: So why not exploring all those, the, those things I always wanted to do. 

Katie: Well, thank you for sharing your story and your transitions and how you've managed, you know, in moving industries, moving roles. Do you have any other advice or things that you think would be helpful that I didn't get to or mention that?

Katie: Yeah, again, someone who either is voluntarily doing this or involuntarily transitioning might find useful. 

Meggi: Hmm. So I think one is what we just ended up just now talking about, you know, this whole notion to sometimes we're so busy to run in the hamster wheel that we don't even stop to think if, what do we actually want to do at this point of [00:23:00] our lives?

Meggi: So first I would just encourage listeners to, if they're considering transitional, if they're already laid off or have to think about it. Just really to take that as an opportunity tool. Breathe. Take a moment and really think, okay, do I want to continue doing on that train? And many people might want to, and then for all means, go for it.

Meggi: Um. Or do I want to do something else and then start looking? And in that case, it's really to, to start looking at two things. Where do I really want to go? I mean, what is, what's, what lights me up? What, where's my passion? And then to start. Drafting a path towards starting with those famous transferable skills to really thinking of, okay, what is all the experiences I already have?

Meggi: And that might also come from private life. I mean, if you're a mom, I mean, most moms, they're organizing the whole family. So they probably have some amazing organizational skills to really look at the whole picture [00:24:00] and then start looking, okay, where could I just try and maybe part-time or short-term contracts just to slowly start moving.

Katie: And maybe that also gives you a chance to try some things out and not get wedded to something. Especially again, if this wasn't something that you thought you were gonna be doing. So try it out, see how it goes before you commit more long-term to something. 

Meggi: Absolutely. 

Katie: And what about the idea too? Again, if, if people maybe do find themselves getting laid off and they don't, maybe it was their dream job or something that they were really passionate about and then they're struggling to identify, well, what, what?

Katie: Maybe their whole industry was sort of wiped out per se, like has happened somewhat here in in the US a little bit. If you have any of your own experience that could be helpful in terms of, if you don't necessarily know what's gonna light you up immediately, what could be some things to start doing so that you could eventually maybe find something, if that makes sense.

Katie: Hmm. 

Meggi: [00:25:00] So maybe two thoughts there because it's true. I know that also in the US there's a huge layer of, in the development space, I mean that's kind of the space I've, I've been kind of more connected with. So I think it's one, if it's really your absolute dream and passion. I think one is also to. To acknowledge that that might pass too and might not pass next year.

Meggi: But probably in a year's time or maybe in two years time, people will realize they fired a lot of really skilled people and now there is a gap and once the budget comes back up. They will need people. So there's maybe also something to not completely give up hope if it's really the absolute dream job now for people that don't know yet where else they might want to go there, it is actually one tool.

Meggi: It's, it's, uh, in coaching it's used more and more, and you might have heard about it, ikigai, which is a Japanese concept, and essentially it, it, it's, i the ideal, the sweet spot between what you love doing, what you're good at doing. What the world [00:26:00] needs and what you get paid for. So what listeners could do is literally just take out a piece of paper and just start scribbling, you know, where are we today?

Meggi: What are the things? And especially on what are the things you love doing to go really crazy? You know? I mean, maybe it's horse riding, maybe it's ballet dancing, maybe it's whatever it might be. And sometimes pattern starts emerging. If nothing emerged immediately, that's also not a big deal. I think it's just also, then also maybe getting out there and exposing yourself to something you're not used to.

Meggi: Like to maybe learn a new language. Go to a cooking club, something where you don't expect that to be your next job, but it'll just expose you to a different type of people that might then give you new ideas and maybe a few steps further down. Suddenly the big idea pop up. 

Katie: I, I think that's really helpful, the idea of go crazy with your ideas because you never know what could [00:27:00] be underneath an idea or within an idea that then links to another idea that could bring you closer to where you wanna be.

Katie: And then also get outta your comfort zone a little bit and try new things if only for the idea of opening your perspective, and that could bring in something new that you might not have thought about before. 

Meggi: And maybe one last thing because I'm, I'm not getting any percentages, but there's this book I'm promoting now all the time because it really helped me.

Meggi: It's written by the founders of LinkedIn and it's called The Startup of You, and a lot of it is common sense. You know, there's not many idea they're completely breaking you, but the way they're framed I find particularly helpful in terms of transferable skills. Also in terms of finding your calling also maybe in how to find the.

Meggi: Industry to go into. So for instance, what they're recommending is to rather go for a lower paid job in a growing industry than to go for something that established but might be in decline. So you might find [00:28:00] yourself in the same issue a few years down the line. And also in terms of networking, I mean, it's just really, and it's quite easy to read.

Meggi: So to get started, that might be also a start just to trigger some new, new ideas and some new approaches. How to go about it. 

Katie: Well, if people are finding interested in finding out about more about you and where to find you, where can people go to to learn more about even your podcast, that type of thing.

Meggi: Sure. So I'm on LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn and I maybe you can put the name into the, the show notes or in any case, you put in my name and you find me. And my podcast is called Play It by Your Rules. And yes, the idea is really to give a sense of possibility, and I do that through guests that bring different types of stories.

Meggi: Some of them are really crazy, some of them are really pragmatic. And basically give this sense of possibility, inspiration, but also some practical tips. So that's maybe the best place to start. And then just see if that [00:29:00] resonates and, you know, maybe that sparks some ideas or some action. 

Katie: Well, cool. Thank you again for, for coming on and for sharing your experience and what you've learned along the way.

Katie: That's, it's super helpful and I really appreciate it. 

Meggi: Thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Katie: I hope this episode was helpful and provided some insight into moving through planned and even unexpected career pivots. As an additional note, if you're ready to make a change in your career and don't know where to start, or it feels too overwhelming, check out. Take a Beat coaching.com to learn more about a one-on-one coaching program designed to help you navigate a career pivot.

Katie: Thanks for listening and take care.