Transcript: Reclaim Your Time, Focus and Creativity with Digital Minimalism

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Kelsey: [00:00:00] When I was off of social media, totally that compulsion to check, it just went away. And then when I would get back on it, it was like. Reading the BO Minutes to an organization that you have no part in, it was like so boring. 

Katie: Welcome to take a beat, a podcast dedicated to career pivots and those who are wanting to hit pause on the hustle, get clear on your direction and head toward the life that you envision.

Katie: Today's episode explores digital minimalism. An idea that is sometimes easier to grapple with in theory than in practice. For example, could you go 24 hours without your phone? That's a question and a challenge that Kelsey Green poses to folks as part of a passion to help people take back some of their time from technology and screens.

Katie: While she doesn't advocate for getting rid of screens altogether, Kelsey is a proponent of implementing digital boundaries, both professionally and [00:01:00] personally to help increase things like focus, creativity, and in-person connection. It's part of the work that she does to help people start building lives that truly light them up.

Katie: In addition to screen free challenges, Kelsey's also the creator of a high accountability mastermind for women entrepreneurs and creators. And she runs a course focused on cultivating meaningful in-person connection. Take a listen to hear more of Kelsey's take on the benefits of digital minimalism, as well as her own story setting, digital boundaries in her personal life and in her career in strategic communications, a world that's known for its immediacy and always on culture.

Katie: Well, I know that we're going into the topic of digital boundaries today, or digital mini digital minimalism. How did you particularly get interested in that, that area? 

Kelsey: I guess I would consider myself, uh, maybe like a late adopter. So in [00:02:00] college, I'm in my early forties, right? And so when I was in college, it was, you know, people were getting cell phones.

Kelsey: Most people had them. And I just resisted getting it because I liked. I don't know. I just like the landline just fine. Right. And then I've never really had a tv. I've always like just hated Oh. Commercials and Right. And just had a sense that I just like didn't wanna end up just like kicking it in front of the TV all the time.

Kelsey: Right. So I feel like that has been a theme in my life. But then. I was working in the nonprofit field and, you know, chaotic, very busy kinds of careers that required you to basically answer the phone at any time, day or night that, you know, your boss would call in addition to being online, you know, on email all day long, um, all night.

Kelsey: So I found myself getting, getting really burnt out for that. And other reasons too, in the nonprofit sector. Launch as a consultant. And it's so interesting because when you launch as a consultant, you know, I feel [00:03:00] like you go through this, this, in my case and others that I know of this pretty steep learning curve.

Kelsey: You make a bunch of mistakes kind of bumble around a little bit and one of the really easy traps to fall into is not having any boundaries with your clients. So. If they call, you know, you could be at dinner with your family and you answer, it's, you know, 5:00 AM you answer, you're always on email, you're always responding, and it can be so disruptive for your life.

Kelsey: And at some point I realized. I had gotten myself into that trap and I hadn't learned yet how to teach other people, including clients, you know, to treat me as a consultant and in my personal life. You know, I was going down that same rabbit hole that I feel like a lot of our peers and friends and family have fallen into just the social media scrolling and ugh, not feeling great about it.

Kelsey: Right? All that kind of same stuff I think that you hear [00:04:00] about. And so I started to implement some of these digital boundaries, and I know digital minimalism is like so hard to say, isn't it? So digital boundaries is great. Uh, and, and I can go into that in a minute, but you know, I feel like it has helped me so much, my mental health, my focus, my creativity, and also not feeling resentful about the way I communicate with my, with my clients.

Katie: I think that's really cool that you were able to recognize that you didn't love your relationship with your phone and social media and decided to change it. What was it like when you first started implementing some of those boundaries? 

Kelsey: Well, I can kind of tell you some of the steps that I took. So I will say that I'm on the journey, right, and there's, there's a long way to go still because I still have that compulsion and that tribe to check stuff.

Kelsey: But I will just point out a book quickly. This is Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. And you know, in this he really talks about [00:05:00] sort of setting up your own ethos. And that would be connected to your values around what you really want to bring forward as important in your life. So there's not like a one size fits all.

Kelsey: So for me, what I'm striving towards is being off of screens. From 7:00 PM to 7:00 AM with the exception of if I wanna sit down to write first thing in the morning, I get up about 5:00 AM. So if I wanna write, I can get on my computer and like write or do a deep work project, but I'm not on my phone for 12 hours.

Kelsey: Yeah. And it's also out of sight. So there's a lot of studies that show that even if your phone is face down. On a table next to you as you're conversing with someone, even if their phone is face down next to you, your tension is more fractured. Right? So putting your phone out of sight. However, you know, I am monitoring my mom's health right now, so I have her as a call through like a, a [00:06:00] breakthrough caller.

Kelsey: You know, she, it will ring super loud. Um, my phone's on doing it disturb except for, for her. So you can set those kind of things, right. And then I also just don't have notifications on at all. No apps. No, I, I don't have sound notifications on, um, again, with the exception of her right now, so that's great.

Kelsey: That's like, you know, because what was happening was I was in a relationship about a year ago and he. Couldn't turn his sound off on his phone. And so every deep conversation we, he, we lived, you know, separately kind of long distance. We had once a week together, maybe the whole time just sound bleeping and belonging and sound.

Kelsey: And then, you know, if he didn't check it, it was like, he felt like, I could tell he was distracted and wanted to, and it became an issue like, Hey, can we just turn this sound off for a few hours? Right. And I just started thinking about how the. [00:07:00] Like 10 years ago, it'd be so rude if you were at a, at a dinner with someone and just ignored them for an amount of time and started doing something else.

Kelsey: Like it would be crazy. Right? And this has just become so normal for us. So anyway, so I have no sound on and. I will say that sometimes it can be really annoying, right? Like you miss calls and I will say if I have a big event or if I'm in the middle of something, you know, more serious, I'll turn the ringer on whatever text.

Kelsey: But that's very rare. But you know, you miss stuff and that can be a little bit annoying. But the. The benefit is that you can actually sit and focus and think and get your work done. And the great news is, I feel like, you know, we can go into this in a sec if you want, but the studies show that the more you can, you know, release those ongoing distractions, the more you're able to focus in.

Kelsey: And [00:08:00] my goal is to work less. And enjoy life more. 

Katie: I was gonna ask, what did you see as sort of the immediate benefits and then maybe even some of the longer term benefits that it sounds like you've been doing it for a little bit of time now. What have you noticed that's different? When I was 

Kelsey: off of social media, totally that compulsion to check, it just went away.

Kelsey: And then when I would get back on it, it was like reading the board minutes to an organization that you have no part in. It was like so boring. Like you lost your taste for it, essentially. Yeah, I just like, just like didn't care and I was like, wow, this is, so, this is just like hoot who, you know, I will say the downside was I support a lot of local organizations and a lot of them.

Kelsey: Have moved to social over email list, you know, so then you miss like their little fundraising events, whatever. So there is some cost, like I won't, I won't lie, but you know, there's so many ways to curate your feed, to [00:09:00] highlight the organizations you want to follow, to let go of everything else, whatever, you know, there's lots of ways to do it, but the benefits were, I think, you know, like I said, the ability to focus.

Kelsey: I just could not sit down and do the work, and I was certain that I had a DHD, and then I started doing this work and realizing that my brain is just sort of fritzed out from all the distractions. 

Katie: That makes sense. How did you handle the almost compulsion to reach for your phone? That can be a thing for a lot of us just picking up the phone out of habit or reaching for it because we're so used to doing that.

Katie: Do you have any tips that helped you with that? I mean, 

Kelsey: I guess it's gonna be a little tough. Like it's gonna be hard. It's not gonna be super easy all the time. That's just kind of the reality, and there's some tricks and hacks and things, and those are great. There's hundreds of devices and apps and [00:10:00] things you can use to manage your use.

Kelsey: But I would say that, again, tying it to the values of why you want to reduce your. Your use, you know, your time online, your consumption is really probably gonna help you with those. Those little hacks. And really, it's like when you feel that compulsion, I think some of the apps are really great because they will ask you.

Kelsey: Is there anything else you'd rather be doing with the next hour of your life than scrolling on social media? And if you're like, you know, you press like, Nope, that's what I wanna do. Like, okay. And then I'd say like, schedule it out. Like if you're gonna spend on an hour, then give yourself an hour and then set that timer and get off whatever.

Kelsey: Right. Were there 

Katie: things that you planned, especially in the beginning to help kind of, I mean, that's just empty time now, so were there things that you scheduled in there for yourself to kind of also take away from that, that void? 

Kelsey: Yeah. I mean, I believe that the [00:11:00] void is like where the magic happens, so that's my goal is to like be in the void.

Kelsey: But I take, I take your question. I do. Because in the beginning, distraction can work really well. So yeah, like here's an, here's a great example. So I run these challenges called screen free Sundays, and not a new concept, but it's 24 hours off of your phone, and I go 36, so 24 hours. As I learned for a lot of people is like almost impossible.

Kelsey: And the first couple times I ran the challenge, I realized that I was not helping people get as prepared as they needed because they needed like an hour by hour plan for their day. So I'm saying, okay. Is there a huge house project that you have that you haven't done in the last three years? Can you schedule a walk with a friend, tell them you're not gonna be on your phone, so you're gonna have to just meet up, you know, just like all these little things that people can do.

Kelsey: So yeah, in the [00:12:00] very beginning, I'd say, and I'm not. I'm not a therapist, but in the very beginning, definitely finding those distractions to, to take the place of it. But again, for me, the goal is I wanna be able to sit and look at the trees for hours and just like be in my own head. I wanna drive without any sound, just to like be in my own body, like fully present, you know what I mean?

Kelsey: So I feel like the void is the goal, but to get there sometimes takes some work. 

Katie: For sure. Do you ever get any feedback after the 24 hour challenges you, you mentioned that you were surprised by how challenging participants can sometimes find it. What types of overall feedback do you tend to get afterward, if any?

Kelsey: Gosh, people have reported back everything. So yeah, I send a survey out and it's so fascinating to see the feedback. Most people say that there were challenging times throughout the day. Absolutely. A lot of people kind of, they do great through [00:13:00] the first half the day as it gets towards evening. If they have a TV routine, they kind of fall off a little bit.

Kelsey: But a lot of people have said that they felt anxious at first. They felt like they were missing out, they were gonna miss something important. And then after a while they started feeling a little bit more liberated, a little bit more free. They started feeling more present and a little bit lighter. And that's, you know, that's been common.

Kelsey: And the other recurring theme is that people say, wow, I have so much more time in the day than I thought I did. 

Katie: Well, kind of on that note, how do you feel like it has affected you running your own business and having this commitment to digital mini minimalism? That word is so hard for me. I know it's. Um, digital minimalism, how have you found it to affect your, your business and more of your professional life?

Kelsey: Well, I will say again, if there's a [00:14:00] crisis, um, I'm in Washington State. There were some wildfires here really bad last year with a client and you know, if it's an emergent situation, like I will turn my phone on and be available and. You know, they're going to legislature, they need something last minute. I will do that once in a while.

Kelsey: Right? So I'm not saying I never do it, but honestly I think people just have come to expect, like, I've, you know, this is, I think good, just practice anyway, but, but making it clear that there's lead time needed. I mean, I have multiple different clients, right, trying to make, trying to set the expectation early that you're gonna need that lead time and then sticking to it.

Kelsey: So I think that's the tough part, is really sticking to those boundaries, especially when you are new to your business, you know, you really need the business. Your clients are very, very important to you. But again, if you don't take these steps in the beginning, you're gonna fall into the trap where it's only gonna get worse, and then you're gonna be with your family.

Kelsey: And it's not even [00:15:00] urgent. They just waited the last minute because you set that precedent, you know? 

Katie: Do you have any tips or strategies maybe that you've found helpful for people? Maybe they don't have great digital boundaries and they wanna implement them. How can they start to do that, especially professionally?

Katie: What would 

Kelsey: you recommend? That's a great question because it is easier to do in the beginning, right? So if you've kind of gotten yourself into that little pickle It is, it is a little tough to backtrack, and I would say that is a situation that baby steps is probably warranted. So I'd say in the beginning, the way to address it might be.

Kelsey: Being responsive as you have been, but saying, Hey, I have some upcoming obligations. I can get this done by whatever, let's, 48 hours from then, or you know, and sort of starting there. And then I would say it depends on your relationship with your clients, right? But. Again, this may not work for employers when employees, that dynamic is obviously a little bit different, but I would say just trying [00:16:00] to be honest with people and you know, you, you can talk about prioritizing family or work life balance and just letting people know gently.

Kelsey: And then the key part here is to actually again, follow through. That definitely 

Katie: makes sense. Well, switching gears a little bit, I know another thing that you are passionate about is building in-person community. Why do you think that's particularly important right now and how do you see it as potentially related to digital boundaries?

Kelsey: So, it's funny because a couple years ago when I was thinking about my course, it's called How to Build Your Circle. It was very separate from the digital boundaries piece and. As I started doing more of this work, I realized, oh my goodness, the accountability, coaching, the in-person community building, the digital minimalism, oh my God, these all go together, right?

Kelsey: So now my course really focuses on. Creating your own digital boundaries in order to build your in-person community. And [00:17:00] this one is, this is, you know, a pretty easy answer because there's so much data that that show how we are becoming more isolated. There's a loneliness epidemic. Our health is decreasing.

Kelsey: There's um. I, I'm sure you've seen it. Um, this report that came out a couple years ago that coined the term, the loneliness epidemic, and just the stats are frightening, right? Uh, in terms of how much less time we're spending together, and then as a result, how. How much our health is being impacted by that, our actual physical health, as much as you know, smoking and obesity, like all these things that you hear about.

Kelsey: And so I am really serious about trying to help people. To build these, these in-person networks. And you know, it's funny 'cause like, okay, yeah, I use the digital platforms to do this. I use digital tools to talk about, you know, digital minimalism. And [00:18:00] that's like, people find that kind of funny. But I'm like, well this is, this is about using the tools as tools, right?

Kelsey: Let's utilize the platforms to talk to each other. That's amazing. But not let it replace all these amazing things that can happen in your real, in person life. Right. 

Katie: So essentially letting them help you to do these, like build the in-person community and and whatnot, but not necessarily fully relying on them to be your community potentially.

Kelsey: Exactly. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. And I think that is what's happening, and I've heard, especially with young people, like, oh, I just read the book, the Anxious Generation, and that, woo, if that doesn't put the fear into you, like, I don't know what will. It was, it was very sobering and, and just, I feel for parents right now.

Kelsey: Mm-hmm. Uh, of kids, um, growing up in this, in this age, I don't know about you, but post COVID people. You know, it's like we just got so much less [00:19:00] accustomed to being in person. People got a little bit more awkward. It was like not as accepted to just like be like, Hey, what are you doing? Let's hang out. Like just hanging out wasn't like a thing anymore.

Kelsey: You have to have like some like grand plan, you know? And it's just, oh, it's just, it breaks my heart. So in person, community I feel like is critical, especially as people age. And if you don't have a strong family unit, I, yes, I feel very strongly about it. 

Katie: Given your passion for building in-person communities, and also with digital boundaries and digital minimalism, what would you like to see happen for more people in those areas?

Katie: What would your ideal be? 

Kelsey: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I don't wanna sound like too woo or whatever, but I truly believe it's, it's about a fulfilling life, right? Like when we talk about. Working hard to not doom scroll. It's not just [00:20:00] because you could be painting your bathroom that new color, right? No, it's because it's like the life that you're meant to live is.

Kelsey: Maybe if like your calling is social media content creation, dope, that's great. Whatever on you go. Right? But I'm talking about people that have that feel unfulfilled, that feel that hollow feeling when they're just kind of zonked out, zoned out on social media. Feel. All those sad, bummer, FOMO feelings and they see their friends doing stuff that their friends took hours to curate online.

Kelsey: Right. I don't think it's a, it's a healthy, good way to live, and I feel like it is hindering two big things. One is, as we spoke about the in-person community, and the other thing is the work that we're meant to be doing in the world. If you don't believe in work that we're meant to be doing, that's fine, but it's sort of like.

Kelsey: Fulfilling creative deep work that you [00:21:00] could be bringing into existence. And that doesn't necessarily mean, I'm not even talking about your career stuff, paid work, whatever. It's like the things that you feel called to create and produce. And that doesn't even make it, maybe it doesn't even make it past your desk.

Kelsey: Right. You're writing a novel just for yourself. You're writing your family history memoirs, you're creating a body of art. Whatever it is, you're, you are intentionally parenting, you're learning as much as you can about like how to parent and research all this stuff, right? It's just like whatever it is for you, I feel like.

Kelsey: This is the important stuff. And one recent example in terms of relationships is my mom had had come to visit and we sat for a couple hours and just talked. And she was like, wow, I've kind of forgotten what it's like to just like sit and talk for a couple hours. And I had two a little bit. Meetings are a different story, right?

Kelsey: But I mean like just sitting, like [00:22:00] looking at someone else, talking about this, talking about this. Like where does the conversation go? We don't have. Necessarily an agenda, just kind of spit balling with your, with your family, with your pals just being together. It's like you, it's something to practice.

Kelsey: You need to like stay in that habit. Right? And I think the phone makes it very easy to feel. This is the one of the main issues the phone makes you feel like you are connecting. And you are doing that and you're building relationships, and I feel like it is doing the opposite. And honestly, just to speak pragmatically for a moment, I mean, people have a thousand friends on social media, but no one to feed their cat when they go on holiday.

Kelsey: I guess like when we talk about community and people, you need someone to go to if you are in trouble, like people literally physically around you. I believe that we're losing that and that is, that's really important. There's a term I can't remember, but it's a term that's just, um, about these casual sort of interactions that you would [00:23:00] have with people at the store, or your neighbor, or the bus driver, whatever, you know, that were kind of losing.

Kelsey: The fabric, it's like the social fabric is disintegrating, you know? 

Katie: Yeah. I think it can be a real challenge right now, and it can take a lot of effort or commitment to practice digital minimalism and build in person community. I guess kind of on that note, I, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and your take on these topics.

Katie: Do you have any other advice or anything else you'd like to add that you think might be helpful for people listening and who are really resonating with this topic? 

Kelsey: I think the takeaway would be that in the beginning it's gonna feel kind of crappy, right? Um, and again, I would say. Set up your emergency stuff, so don't, if you have kids or aging parents or whatever, figure that out.

Kelsey: I'm not talking about not talking to them. Right. So just to make that clear. But anyway, talking about the rest of the stuff, it's gonna feel [00:24:00] kind of hard and crappy at first. But what I want people to understand is that the benefits outweigh. You know, the inconvenience and missing out on what that person had at the cocktail bar, the benefits far outweigh the cost of, of working to manage this.

Kelsey: And it's not gonna be that super fun at first, but it is worth it. But just keep pushing through. Yeah, exactly. 

Katie: Well, where can people find you if they wanna find out more about you or your challenges or just learn more about, uh, your take on digital boundaries. 

Kelsey: Thanks Katie. So my website is Kelsey l uh, like lemur green.com.

Kelsey: That's my same handle on Instagram, Kelsey L Green. You can find me buy that same handle on LinkedIn and I run one or two challenges every month. Um, screen free Sunday challenges that you can sign up for. So you'll be doing it in community. And I send you some, you know, tips, um, for getting ready [00:25:00] and some just encouragement and like love leading up to the challenge.

Kelsey: And then, um, at the start of every quarter, I have a program called Summit in Six, that's a high accountability program for women and creators and entrepreneurs. And that is doing your summit, whatever your summit is, finishing the book is. It has become a big one finishing the book, um, as people summit.

Kelsey: And so that is a cohort of women that come together to do their summit over the course of six months. And then the next, um, launch for how to build your circle will be in the new year. Awesome. 

Katie: Yeah. Well, again, thank you so much for coming on and, and taking the time and I really appreciate it. It was really fun to talk with you, so thanks.

Katie: Thanks, Katie. What a pleasure to be on. Thank you so much. I hope this episode was helpful and provided some food for thought around some of the benefits and the challenges of digital minimalism and even some of the ways to practice digital boundaries in your own life, [00:26:00] if that's something you're interested in.

Katie: As an additional note, if you're ready to make a change in your career and don't know where to start, or it feels too overwhelming, check out. Take a b coaching.com to learn more about a one-on-one coaching program designed to help you navigate a career pivot. Thanks for listening and take care.