Transcript: What Does It Take to Move Through Fear? One Tiny Brave Step

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Host: Hello. Thanks for taking a beat. My name is Katie and I'm a licensed therapist, coach and writer breaking down mental health and personal development topics, especially in the areas of self-confidence and self-esteem. Today's episode is on fear and one woman's journey to become more courageous in order to live life more in her terms, rather than avoiding or running away from the things that she was afraid of.

That woman is Bernice McDonald, who today is a professional coach helping women navigate life transitions with courage or what Bernice calls one tiny brave step at a time. In this episode, Bernice talks about her own journey, finding courage and moving through fear, like her fears around being the first in her family to go to university and later dropping out, dating again after divorce and becoming a published writer.

She shares tips and strategies that helped her to reframe her relationship [00:01:00] with fear. Seeing it as more of a protective ally that sometimes needs to take a back seat. She also humanizes the idea that fear is a natural reaction and it's not something to be ashamed of. In fact, the kinder we can be to ourselves when we are feeling afraid is actually gonna help us to move through it easier.

Take a listen to hear more of her journey and insights.

Welcome, Bernice. Thank you so much for joining today.

Bernice: Yeah, thank you for having me. It's like really strange, but it's like my favorite topic actually, maybe the courage part is more the favorite topic, but they're kind of connected, right? You kind of have to have one and to have the other, I guess.

Host: Yes, that's right. Well, I guess to provide some context for, for listeners, how did you come to this focus area for yourself? It seems like it's a passion kind of for you.

Bernice: It is. It's more of a calling, you know, and I didn't really actually [00:02:00] realize that until about a year ago. I was in a coaching mastermind, so while I was in this, this course.

Everybody was sort of figuring out what their key direction was and it just wasn't sitting well with me. So I was speaking with somebody who actually talks about fear quite a lot, and uh, in one of our groups and said, you know, if I'm really honest, what I really want, it's to help women to be more courageous.

Host: And what do you think draws you to the idea of courage?

Bernice: I probably have been the most scared person in the world in the past. I'll just tell you, on my 19th birthday, I cried all day because every time somebody said Happy Birthday to me, my family was so puzzled because I was only 19. But you know, I already could see that growing up meant that you were.

Probably destined to be unhappy. You know, [00:03:00] many of the adults around me and I loved them to pieces. I was raised in a good, loving family, but many of my aunts and uncles seemed to be unhappy the way life was going. They weren't happy with that and they were angry about it, and they were kind of bitter and you know, and I just thought.

I grow up and be that if I have to grow up, was afraid to grow up. And I actually said out to God, I said, okay, I don't wanna do this. I do not wanna get older and be that kind of person. And I heard this voice. It was such a distinct impression 'cause I still remember it to this day. And it said then don't be.

And I thought. Okay. I'm not, I'm not gonna be that kind of person. I am going to set out to be different now. I went up a lot of hills, mountains, down into a lot of valleys between my 19th birthday and now. But really, I [00:04:00] call it a journey of courage because I believe that the one thing we need in life to get through anything is courage.

'cause life is scary.

Host: It can be for sure. Yeah. What would your definition of courage be?

Bernice: Good question. I think the definition of courage to me is to be brave enough to face whatever is in front of you and to take action despite feeling afraid.

Host: so moving, not eliminating the fear, but validating it essentially, and going forward anyway.

Bernice: For sure because we'll never be rid of fear. Fear is always there with us in big and small ways and some things that one person would consider a small way is a very big thing to another person, and it's not always about whether or not you're gonna fall off a roof, you know? [00:05:00] It's also about whether or not you are going to fall on your face in front of someone else and whether or not you're going to succeed at something that you're trying to do and how people are going to perceive that, and how you're going to look in front of other people.

Fear comes up in so many different ways in our lives. Well, I know that one thing that you like to do is name your fear and how does that work for you, and how do you use that? Well, you know, that all came about in between. I, I went through a divorce. I was married for 24 years. So when I, getting into dating again is one of the most scary things you can ever do, and I had just become a coach at that time.

So I thought, alright, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna face this and I'm going to learn to be a relationship coach because I obviously need a lot of help in this area. So, um, I started to take relationship coaching courses. [00:06:00] And it helped me so much. So one of the things she said was, you are going to be afraid.

Fear is going to come up. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to look in the eye and I want you to thank it for being there because it's trying to protect you from being heard again, but you are not in danger of death. You are in danger of being hurt or not. Growing and really that's what you need to do is to grow in this area.

So you need to say to your fear, thank you very much, but right now I want you to go over there in the corner and eat a cookie because I need to be in charge here and I need to make the decision to go forward and do this thing. And coincidentally, it was probably 20 years later, just a couple years ago.

I was reading Elizabeth Gilbert's book called Big Magic, and she was talking about creatives and about how fearful it is to put [00:07:00] yourself out there. She had almost the same concept, only she wrote a letter to her fear and she sank it for being there with her. And she said, I know you are always gonna be on this journey with me, and you are welcome.

That's good, but I want you to know you can come along for the ride, but. You will never be driving. You'll either be in the passenger seat or the back seat. I will hear you talking away and I will acknowledge that, but. I'm gonna be driving the car. And in between those two times, in that 20 years, I used that illustration so much.

And then when I found it in Elizabeth Gilbert's book again, I thought, oh, that's perfect. I don't think she named her fear. I can't remember. But I know that I used to see it as this fiery fear drag, and that's how I pictured it. So I decided I was gonna shrink it down to this little guy. And [00:08:00] like a cartoon character.

And I was gonna name him Fred. And so that made him friendly. It made him a partner, it made him manageable, gave me a little distance from him. And so now I can just acknowledge, oh yeah, when I feel that fear, that's, that's Fred chirping away. Thank you Fred. I hear you. I acknowledge you. Let me think about it.

Now I, I think I'm gonna go ahead and do this anyways because it's just fear, I'm feeling. So that's kind of how Fred came to be.

Host: He's kind of like a hypervigilant neighbor or something.

Bernice: Exactly. Yeah. It's a worrier. Okay. Because the thing about, and the truth about our fear is that it's a built-in mechanism in our brain.

That does protect us because there's all kinds of dangers in this world that could kill us if we're not careful, right? So it does bring up that, you know, all your hormones and adrenaline and all of that so that you react [00:09:00] to a fearful situation. But the thing about the fear is that it can't tell the difference between a, a life threatening situation and you just being uncomfortable in the face of.

Something that you are afraid is gonna make you look bad or you've never tried before, or you know, something that builds on something in the past that where you failed and you're afraid to try it again. So that's why I think it's really important for us to make that distinction. And what has helped me so much is to say, I'm not gonna die here.

This is just, I'm uncomfortable, but I have to take a step. Forward despite the discomfort or else I will never go anywhere. I will just stay exactly where I am today and that's not always what I wanna do. What about the idea then of of self-doubt, and how does Fred kind of help with, I think that's kind of what you're alluding to, this idea of like the rational fear, like the house is on fire [00:10:00] versus maybe I don't have a lot of belief in myself in this area.

Host: How do you catch the self-doubt for yourself now?

Bernice: Well, you know, self-doubt. It's those statements in our head, right? And Fred. Is the fear does bring that up because when you're faced with a, a certain situation, usually, or I shouldn't say many times, it's related to something in your past that somebody said, somebody summed you up in a statement or made you feel really ashamed or embarrassed, and you carry that with you all through your life.

So self-doubt actually stems from that. Thing that somebo how someone else defined you. So I, I like in my book, brave enough to be Yourself In the second part. That's what I talk about is, is you know, who tells you who you are? Because that's the question we need [00:11:00] to ask. It's like, who am I allowing to tell me who I am?

For example, back when I was like 15 in love with my very first boyfriend, he was like 17 and you know, I was. Amazed that he even had any interest in me. Well, the way he broke up with me, I remember was he said to me one night, you know, I really like your hair. It's very pretty. I think, you know, that's one of your best qualities about you.

And I've been thinking, you know, you'd be really pretty if you lost 10 pounds. And it's like, that just hit me in, in the gut. No pun intended. I had no idea I was fat at that time. I had no awareness. I didn't even think about it and I wasn't fat. You know, I was maybe a bit plum, but in his, that was back when sin was very in and considered to be extremely healthy.

Well, that statement alone [00:12:00] hit hit me so hard. Then the fact that he rejected me, he broke up with me that night and said, I don't think that I, you know, this is gonna work out. I was devastated and I, I tied that to what he had said, that I wasn't enough. I wasn't pretty enough, I wasn't thin enough to be loved.

That developed over time into an eating disorder. So that shows you how our self-doubt is often rooted in those kinds of things. So when I work with women, I really. The thing that I found with myself and the thing that I found with others is that you need to find that warrior side in inside of you. You need to know that there is a beautiful person in there who has their own strengths, their own unique abilities.

That is absolutely one of a kind who has her own passion and her own way of doing [00:13:00] things. And when. You find that person, then you need to step up and defend her. So you embrace who you are and then you stand up for you for that person. And then you practice that over and over, and every time you get afraid that you're not enough.

You remember who you want to be. This is who I want to be. This is how I wanna show up in the world. And then you bring up your warrior to stand strong for that person. And because every. Person has that strength inside to stand up for who they are and to be who they are. 'cause that's who they're meant to be.

With all the stuff that's been put on us, that will push us down and try to reshape us into somebody that we're not. Is this the concept that you mentioned, that the strange jewels that everybody has? Definitely. Because [00:14:00] often. The voices from our past have probably shamed us into thinking certain qualities in us are just too much or not enough.

And certain things like say, I don't know if you've ever been told that, but it's like, oh, you're just way too sensitive or. You're so loud. How come you have to be so loud? But you know, when you take those qualities, a person, like I've been accused a lot of being way too sensitive. But when I stop and think of it, it's actually my sensitivity that gives me empathy, that helps me to be intuitive for when I'm working with other people.

That is, that is a strength of mine. And so that is. Tied to my sensitivity. It's kind of like the downside of it, right? But that's okay because I've always said I'd way rather be sensitive than to be numb to everything. The other thing is the person that's way too loud, that is really boisterous or outgoing, you [00:15:00] know, is always told is the kid.

Settle down. Settle down, that that person has a zest for life. Person can take that zest for life and turn that into something that brings joy to so many other people in some way instead of always trying to tamp it down. You know, Elizabeth Gilbert was also the one that talked about the strange jewels in her book, big Magic.

She has a little bit different take on it, but I love that terminology and I just thought like she does mean for it to be, to go looking for that in yourself and to bring that out to the world. So that's really essentially how I use it too, is that to find that inside of every person and for you to find it in yourself, to recognize that, and then to stand up and defend those beautiful jewels and to say, this is, this is not all bad.

This is a good thing. I can use this because it [00:16:00] usually, when you're in those qualities that you are creating the most magic in your life, that you are creating the, the best things, you're having the biggest impact on the world around you in, in your experience.

Host: And how does maybe self-compassion also come into play with building and finding courage? I imagine it plays a role.

Bernice: Yeah, because when you start to realize, you know, when you find those strange jewels in yourself and you start to look at yourself in that way, when you start to realize that there are certain patterns that you have because of things that people said to you in the past and you, you realize that what they said was.

Was not very kind like that boy who said to me, you know, you'd be really pretty if you lost 10 pounds. Who's, who says that? I mean, you know, like that. That's a cruel thing to say to a 15-year-old girl and we have a lot worse things said to us. Right. So. Understanding [00:17:00] that the path we've walked and looking back at the decades that we've come through, realizing and pinpointing some of the things in there that really hurt.

Another thing was when I was in grade four, a teacher called me to the back of the room and she was the most scary teacher. Everyone was absolutely petrified of her, and so she called me to the back because I had done something wrong on a math quiz or something. And I was not a dummy. I, I understood math.

I even liked math, but she's, she pointed to that paper and said, okay, what's the answer to this? You know, this. And I just froze. I mean, you know, I was a pretty quiet little girl and I was so afraid of her. I, I didn't know. And she slapped me on the arm and she said, you don't know that answer, sir. You are not dumb.

You know, you're smart, but. That moment really affected my academic future [00:18:00] too. So when you have compassion, like I've gone back and thought of that little girl standing there and having that scary teacher in my space that is about realizing you are such a precious person that has walked all the way through this life.

And so you need to just put your arms around that person. And you know, really in the end, we are all we have. So I think. That's one thing that's motivated me to really try to become, like, to decide first of all, who is I made to be? Who do I want to be? And then how do I wanna, like how am I gonna just work with myself to become that person and to give myself all the grace and the generosity I can to make mistakes.

Not to think of myself as a mistake, but instead to be somebody who makes mistakes. And were there times in life when. It was you were harder on yourself when you made mistakes. Oh, [00:19:00] yes. And like until I started to realize, like until, I think, until I started to see fear as something that is separate from myself and something that is meant to protect me, but doesn't have to hold me back, all of that together.

I was very hard on myself. I mean, that's why I had the eating disorder. That's why, uh, I passed up so many opportunities where if I would've had the courage to just step out and try something and do it with all the confidence that I have in me, I would've been, you know, it would've taken me in so many different.

Places in life than where I ended up. But I, I don't believe I, I think that our whole life is a journey of courage and a journey of building our character, becoming who we're meant to be. And I think it doesn't matter what choices you make or don't make, what really matters is how much you grow and how much you become the [00:20:00] person that you can be, that you feel good being.

That is really. What makes life most meaningful?

Host: Well, I'm guessing that helps if, if you ever feel regret or you know, looking back and I mean sometimes that that happens.

Bernice: Yes, definitely. Like I, why did I do that? Or go there or marry that person or not do that. Yes, exactly. I know I went to university, I don't know if you're in the States, we call it university here, but I mean Canada, so.

I, I had so much fear in, in that year. My first year there, the statement in my head was, I don't belong here. I'm not smart enough. My family, nobody in my family has gone to university. Why am I here? I can't do this. And that was so huge to me that I ended up in the beginning of my second year, I dropped out because I just could not.

I could not [00:21:00] keep going. I, I, you know, I loved writing and I loved being in English, and I was doing really well in those courses. And I wanted to be a teacher, which I think I, I would've succeeded, uh, you know, been a good teacher, but I couldn't get past that fear. But I lived with regret for that for a long time.

But then I realized that. That was something that has made me, it's part of my, the tapestry of my life. That's, that's an incident on my path in the past where I made a choice and where I was cop dealing with a lot of stuff, and it's just something that happened. And so my main concern is how I respond to that.

Who do I wanna be looking back over that? Who do I wanna be now because of that? Well, it sounds like you had somewhat of a full circle moment in that you, you wrote a book. Yes. Yeah, because like I said, I love to write, actually, this was [00:22:00] all part of the whole, when I came to the realization that I had a passion, and really the legacy I wanna leave in this world is to help women be more courageous.

So I decided I'm not only going to write one book, I'm writing a series of books called Little Books of Courage, and I, I am writing 10 of them. And, uh, the second one's almost ready to be published. The third one is almost fully written, so I'm, you know, getting there. But they're just little books of courage, lots of white space.

They're almost like a journaling book. They are, uh, a lot of self-reflection prompts. A lot of, uh, very short stories that I tell. The first one, brave enough to be myself is really, I sense my heart on paper because. It was the, in essence, the journey that I had to take to get to the place where I even had the confidence to write that book.

And then my second one is brave enough to let Go, which talks about how when life doesn't turn out [00:23:00] the way we want it to. We need to, you know, instead of hanging on with tight fists and being angry about that, we need to let it go and just be surprised by how life did turn out and is going to still turn out and just still become the best person we can be in the middle of that.

The third one is brave enough to be, to stop people pleaing, and so that kind of says itself, you know, have not to. Let somebody else tell you who you are and who you should be. But instead to stand up, set your own boundaries, draw your own lines in the sand, and defend that person that you are. So that's where I'm going with all that.

Host: And do you have them all planned out or are you kind of just going as they come to you?

Bernice: Yeah. That they're, they're all planned out. Okay. Kind of in a, yeah. A because, okay. They're all, they all work together to create a life of courage. So many of us deal with different aspects, like some people are not people pleasers, [00:24:00] but they have a hard time actually being brave enough to be themselves.

Books in the future will be brave enough to be the leader that I need to be and brave enough to fall in love again. All of like those different aspects that women face and struggle with.

Host: Do you find that working, Sounds like mostly with women, that there are common themes or patterns around a particular fear that seems to happen the come up the most, or is it kind of all over the place for people?

Bernice: No, I think at the bottom, the biggest fear, it's like Tony Robbins said All men, he says, anyone with skin on has this fear, and that's the fear that we're not enough. And if we're not enough, we won't be loved. And I see that over and over and over. I mean, it, it shapes itself into all kinds of things. The lack of self-confidence, not trying something new, thinking that we can't have that dream or it's too [00:25:00] late for us, or, or we're not ready yet.

You know, all of those things really fall under that feeling. Not enough. And the two things that I really try hard to, to train women to do is to not, is to forget about being enough. Instead, just be brave enough to take that next step. Just take the next step and the next step, and make those steps small.

Be brave enough. Build your courage, because courage only comes through action. It, you know, if you stand there at the, at the start and you're afraid to move forward, you will not not have the courage until you take that. One step. Courage comes with a step with action, even when you feel afraid. And the second thing, what was I going to say?

Oh, but to also realize that they need to tap into that warrior inside. And when they find that brave person inside, that's just them. That's [00:26:00] what helps them to take that first step and then the next step.

Host: Well, it sounds like you're pretty persistent.

Bernice: Yeah, I think I'm like a pit bull, which can be helpful.

Yeah. Well, yeah, like there's been times I, I, you know, we all go through that where you just, you just wanna quit. Yeah. Because it's too hard. And the advice you've been given isn't working for you and you've, you've, you're tired and you've, you're discouraged, but. The next day I usually wake up and I think, eh, maybe a couple days on the couch.

You know? So then after that, I think, is this who I wanna be? Is this the person I wanna be now for the rest of my life? Somebody who just stops and gives up, or do I wanna find another way? Do I still have something to [00:27:00] give a passion? I want to live? Do I want to feel fulfilled or do I want to just get angry?

Because that, those are really the two choices in lots of ways. You know, if you just stop, anger takes over because it's, that's a natural response for us. In fact, a while ago, that's what I started to do as you know, when I get up in the morning and open the window, the blinds and you know, look out at the world and say, good morning, world, who will I be on this day?

And. It starts to become very personal, then it's like it's my responsibility to decide who I'm going to be and how I am going to respond to every single thing that happens to me in my life. And I, I very cl clearly for many years have known what my values are, what my key values are as a person, like how I wanna be in different situations.

And sometimes now, I will even think, [00:28:00] because I know. You don't have control over how life goes. So sometimes something happens and, or it could happen the scenarios that like it could work or it could go very, very wrong. And I even think of this even, it's a terrible thing. But you know, if my husband dies, so then I think, okay.

How am I, who am I gonna be in that situation? If that should happen, who do I wanna be? What kind of person? That doesn't mean I'm not gonna be absolutely devastated or totally fall on my face in that moment, but when I pick myself back up again, then how do I really wanna handle this? That's where the courage comes in.

That's where the warrior comes in. That's who I wanna be. That's where now at where I am at in life now, it's really helpful to say no matter what happened, uh, I'm going to, you know, I'm not gonna be [00:29:00] tight-fisted. I'm going to be open and I'm going to just be surprised at how life turns out. And I'm going to just respond to that.

Whatever happens in my day or you know, in my life, you know, in next year, I, I will just. I'll be surprised. Like I can't, I can't control it, but the only thing I can control, as we've heard a lot, you know, you know, around us these days is who you are and, and how you respond in a certain situation.

Host: Do you have any advice for people who may be trying to work toward that?

How did you maybe move the needle toward being more responsive than reactive? What helped you?

Bernice: I guess, I think knowing myself helped me a lot. Giving myself permission to, to be disappointed, to be hurt, to be, to need something, to be a certain way. I think coming to terms with that fact that this is who I am.

This is [00:30:00] affecting me this way, and that's okay for right now. Like, it's okay that I didn't like the fact that person told me a lie or I didn't like the fact that my kids didn't, you know, obey what I wanted them to do and they did not check off the list. You know, that's, I mean, those kinds of things, you to just, you know, throw me into a, a fit because I had this neat package the way I needed my life to be.

So coming to terms with the fact that that's who I am. I am this person that does need a lot of certainty. I need to know what's happening. I need a plan. So now I can adapt to that and say, okay, I, I'm, I need a plan. And my husband is learning this very clearly. You know, because I will say to him, okay, you know me, I have to know what we're doing because otherwise it's, it's just too hard for me.

I will make sure. That because he's totally the opposite. He just flies by the seat of his pants. So we understand each other that way. [00:31:00] But knowing yourself and what you need and asking for your needs to be met, I think that that is a very important part of learning to then accept when things don't go the way that you want them to because you say.

Oh yeah. This is so totally out of my plan, so that's why I'm feeling this way. You know, it's the circumstance and the thought, and you think, okay, I'm feeling anxious. Where's that anxiety coming from? I didn't expect this. That throws me for a loop. So, okay, what am I gonna do as a result of that? And, and then you come up with something and you forgive yourself a lot.

If you have a reaction to something, you apologize and you try, you know, come up with a different scenario. Next time this happens, I'm gonna try to be more like this. I understand what happened to me. So I, I just think we need to be so kind and compassionate to ourselves. And, and let ourselves [00:32:00] grow. Have the grace to allow ourselves to become, you know, the person that we're be becoming, but not use that as an excuse to stay stuck in the reactivity or the anger or the irritating irritation.

That's important too, but to realize that we need to still be progressing along that that path.

Host: Well, thank you so much for your, for your advice and your wisdom in these areas. Do you have anything else that you think would be important to add or that I didn't ask or get to you that kind of popped into your head that you think could be helpful for people or anything else that comes to mind?

Bernice: I, you know, the, the one thing that I just love. For people to take away is to know that fear is never going anywhere. You are always going to have fear, but to make friends with it and realize it's a protector and it's there to keep you safe, but sometimes you need to have a talk with it and [00:33:00] say, I actually need to be uncomfortable.

I need to step outside my comfort zone here because I really do wanna grow and I wanna become a better person. And one thing I do have, I I, I'm quite amazed by this. I'm a big chat GPT person, and you can do a, you can do your own chats. So I have developed something called the Tiny Grave Steps of Generator, and it's amazing if you're stuck.

If you don't know what to do. It's programmed to ask you four questions and to talk through. What is the hardest thing for you right now? What are you feeling about that? But in the end, it'll give you three small steps, one, a 92nd step and two five minute steps to take so that you actually move forward.

You're, you are taking some action because it's only in the actions where you find courage. So people can opt into [00:34:00] that@tinybravesteps.com and it's free.

Host: Well, again, thank you so much for joining and for having the conversation today. It was very interesting to talk about fear and Fred, and how you can name your fear and sort of befriend it and use it to find courage.

Bernice: Yes, and thank you for having me. I really enjoyed talking to you about all of that. It was, um, awesome to be here.

Host: You can find out more information about Bernice, including her free AI tool via the links in the episode description. I hope this episode was helpful in shedding some light on fear and what it's like to move through that feeling and how it can help to build courage, self-confidence, and stamina. Even if we don't always do it on the first or second try.

Also, if you find yourself at a place in life where you're struggling with what to do next or maybe even struggling with some fear around your direction or goals. You can check out, take a beat coaching.com to learn more about a one-on-one [00:35:00] coaching program designed to help you better navigate stress and indecision and increase self-confidence.

Thanks for listening and take care.